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None of it matters really. We cannot get even the most basic thing done in our own country (wear a mask to protect yourself and the people around you). Any vi

None of it matters really. We cannot get even the most basic thing done in our own country (wear a mask to protect yourself and the people around you). Any vision of cooperation in the future must factor in some of the insanity we have seen over the last few years. And my words and views are only from inside the US. Imagine having to get everyone on the globe to agree to something. I am certain there are large groups of crazies in every country who think this is god's plan or just want everything to burn for their own reasons. Maybe if there are some Hollywood sized extinction events that can be traced back to climate change. But even then you will get large groups of people claiming it did not happen. Or was caused by some race. Or will claim Bill Gates caused climate change. What I am really saying is cooperation inside of a supposed group of United States is currently impossible. Now do that across the globe. If we have to act now in unison to save ourselves we are in fact doomed.

sokoloff 5y ago
I see a lot of mask wearing where it’s legally mandated. I see limited mask wearing where it’s not required. Neither of those is surprising, of course. That seems like it’s compatible with a framework for atmospheric carbon reduction. I think the challenges are mostly economic and technical, not societal.
- pclmulqdq 5y ago
  In New York City, I have been seeing decreased compliance with mask mandates as the pandemic has gone on. It really seems like people have limited capacity to comply with unpleasant rules. Carbon rules may end up in the same category, with rampant noncompliance.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Carbon charges could reasonably be applied at the supply chain level, making compliance closer to sales tax compliance than to voluntary action.
- tonetheman 5y ago
  I hope you are right... I dislike my realist take on it. :)
- gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
  This is where policy has to be focused on the science, both environmental and medical. For example, cloth masks did little during the Delta phase of Covid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFCYv0X4kf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFCYv0X4kf4). Another issue that even where people wore cloth masks, many did not wear them properly. They had their noses sticking out (which transmit more than their mouths). They had beards, which allow the virus out through air gaps caused by the hair. The States that pushed for cloth masks essentially prompted hygiene theater. Research out of Ontario shows that for men under 40, it's probably a good idea to limit the number of required boosters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVoS-1TIWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVoS-1TIWI). We need to take a measured approach to environmental changes too. Suddenly causing the US or any other advanced economy to have rolling blackouts will probably not help humanity in the long run. Instead it will continue the political vitriol. We can't mandate all houses have solar because that places the already expensive house out the reach of the poor, which we see happening in California.
Biologist123 5y ago
You might be right that resolving climate change may be politically impossible. But…what we saw emerge at COP26 - spearheaded by John Kerry - is an _attempt_ to get around this problem. By (1) a demand-side response, ie not dependent on regulating against fossil fuel extraction, and (2) creating groups of first movers who will invest to reduce demand and dependence on fossil fuels and force a market adjustment. Will it work? Who knows. But there’s a lot depending on it!
UncleEntity 5y ago
IDK, how’s the ozone hole doing these days? Took major international cooperation to tackle that problem so people can obviously get together and coordinate an action plan.

sokoloff 5y ago

I see a lot of mask wearing where it’s legally mandated. I see limited mask wearing where it’s not required. Neither of those is surprising, of course. That seems like it’s compatible with a framework for atmospheric carbon reduction. I think the challenges are mostly economic and technical, not societal.

pclmulqdq 5y ago
In New York City, I have been seeing decreased compliance with mask mandates as the pandemic has gone on. It really seems like people have limited capacity to comply with unpleasant rules. Carbon rules may end up in the same category, with rampant noncompliance.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Carbon charges could reasonably be applied at the supply chain level, making compliance closer to sales tax compliance than to voluntary action.
tonetheman 5y ago
I hope you are right... I dislike my realist take on it. :)
gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
This is where policy has to be focused on the science, both environmental and medical. For example, cloth masks did little during the Delta phase of Covid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFCYv0X4kf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFCYv0X4kf4). Another issue that even where people wore cloth masks, many did not wear them properly. They had their noses sticking out (which transmit more than their mouths). They had beards, which allow the virus out through air gaps caused by the hair. The States that pushed for cloth masks essentially prompted hygiene theater. Research out of Ontario shows that for men under 40, it's probably a good idea to limit the number of required boosters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVoS-1TIWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVoS-1TIWI). We need to take a measured approach to environmental changes too. Suddenly causing the US or any other advanced economy to have rolling blackouts will probably not help humanity in the long run. Instead it will continue the political vitriol. We can't mandate all houses have solar because that places the already expensive house out the reach of the poor, which we see happening in California.

Biologist123 5y ago

You might be right that resolving climate change may be politically impossible. But…what we saw emerge at COP26 - spearheaded by John Kerry - is an _attempt_ to get around this problem. By (1) a demand-side response, ie not dependent on regulating against fossil fuel extraction, and (2) creating groups of first movers who will invest to reduce demand and dependence on fossil fuels and force a market adjustment. Will it work? Who knows. But there’s a lot depending on it!

UncleEntity 5y ago

IDK, how’s the ozone hole doing these days? Took major international cooperation to tackle that problem so people can obviously get together and coordinate an action plan.