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Austerity to destroy public services is good? Deregulation to reduce worker and consumer rights is good? Privatisation to destroy publicly owned production is g

by lucian1900 5y ago

Austerity to destroy public services is good? Deregulation to reduce worker and consumer rights is good? Privatisation to destroy publicly owned production is good? Almost every country the IMF has imposed its terms on has higher levels of poverty than before. I can’t even take trains in my country anymore, they cost more and never get maintained since they were privatised.

unmole 5y ago
> Austerity to destroy public services is good? Reining in profiligate government spending is good. If the countries were actually being run sustainably, they wouldn't have needed bailouts in the first place. > Deregulation to reduce worker and consumer rights is good? Can you please point me to where and how this happened? > Privatisation to destroy publicly owned production is good? Publicly run enterprises in my country were and still are hopelessly ineffective. They continue to leech taxpayer money that could have otherwise gone towards healthcare, education and infrastructure spending. If it wasn't for private sector enterprise, many goods and services would simply remain unable to the ordinary public. > Almost every country the IMF has imposed its terms on has higher levels of poverty than before. Definitely not in my country. Poverty rates have been cut in half since the reforms.
psd1 5y ago
It's a phenomenon that I find strange. Laissez-fairism has a holdout on HN, despite being a century dead in the real world. It's a position argued frequently here, which surprised me at first because it's sophomoric. So far, I've been unable to reconcile holding that position with having any level of empathy. It's a position held by people with "mechanical efficiency" (not that Galtism is efficient) high on their list of values, but "collectivism" nowhere in the list. People who maxed their stats on technical attributes but have no calculus of human suffering. Dunning Kruger comes into play. It's also the position held by bastards; but I don't get the impression that the hackerati are bastards, just... specialised.
- unmole 5y ago
  Or, those of us who grew up in socialist countries understand the folly of overarching government control of the economy. Nothing drives home the importance of price signals more than having to wait for years to buy a car despite having the money to pay for it.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    Countries that were historically exploited and remained under siege by all capitalist countries after their socialist revolutions can’t be expected to have the same productive forces as the established industrialised countries that oppress them. Don’t confuse the effects of imperialism with supposed shortcomings of planned economies.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > Countries that were historically exploited and remained under siege by all capitalist countries after their socialist revolutions can’t be expected to have the same productive forces as the established industrialised countries that oppress them. Yet somehow the productive capacity of these countries skyrockets once they embrace free markets. It's almost as if they are somehow related.
      - drekk 5y ago
        They didn't, though? Look at the former members of the Soviet Bloc today. Higher infant mortality rates, lower education attainment, no industry of which to speak. Name one country doing better after an IMF loan! I could talk about Argentina, Haiti, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil, Honduras, El Salvador... all of which have not been saved by "the invisible hand of the free market"
        unmole 5y ago
        > Look at the former members of the Soviet Bloc today. Like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania? > Name one country doing better after an IMF loan! India

unmole 5y ago

> Austerity to destroy public services is good? Reining in profiligate government spending is good. If the countries were actually being run sustainably, they wouldn't have needed bailouts in the first place. > Deregulation to reduce worker and consumer rights is good? Can you please point me to where and how this happened? > Privatisation to destroy publicly owned production is good? Publicly run enterprises in my country were and still are hopelessly ineffective. They continue to leech taxpayer money that could have otherwise gone towards healthcare, education and infrastructure spending. If it wasn't for private sector enterprise, many goods and services would simply remain unable to the ordinary public. > Almost every country the IMF has imposed its terms on has higher levels of poverty than before. Definitely not in my country. Poverty rates have been cut in half since the reforms.

psd1 5y ago

It's a phenomenon that I find strange. Laissez-fairism has a holdout on HN, despite being a century dead in the real world. It's a position argued frequently here, which surprised me at first because it's sophomoric. So far, I've been unable to reconcile holding that position with having any level of empathy. It's a position held by people with "mechanical efficiency" (not that Galtism is efficient) high on their list of values, but "collectivism" nowhere in the list. People who maxed their stats on technical attributes but have no calculus of human suffering. Dunning Kruger comes into play. It's also the position held by bastards; but I don't get the impression that the hackerati are bastards, just... specialised.

unmole 5y ago
Or, those of us who grew up in socialist countries understand the folly of overarching government control of the economy. Nothing drives home the importance of price signals more than having to wait for years to buy a car despite having the money to pay for it.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Countries that were historically exploited and remained under siege by all capitalist countries after their socialist revolutions can’t be expected to have the same productive forces as the established industrialised countries that oppress them. Don’t confuse the effects of imperialism with supposed shortcomings of planned economies.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > Countries that were historically exploited and remained under siege by all capitalist countries after their socialist revolutions can’t be expected to have the same productive forces as the established industrialised countries that oppress them. Yet somehow the productive capacity of these countries skyrockets once they embrace free markets. It's almost as if they are somehow related.
    - drekk 5y ago
      They didn't, though? Look at the former members of the Soviet Bloc today. Higher infant mortality rates, lower education attainment, no industry of which to speak. Name one country doing better after an IMF loan! I could talk about Argentina, Haiti, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil, Honduras, El Salvador... all of which have not been saved by "the invisible hand of the free market"
      - unmole 5y ago
        > Look at the former members of the Soviet Bloc today. Like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania? > Name one country doing better after an IMF loan! India