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Sort of, but it's not the whole story. It's not uncommon to hear claims that Matrix or Jabber doesn't cut it becasue they don't offer shared history, or E2EE, o

Sort of, but it's not the whole story. It's not uncommon to hear claims that Matrix or Jabber doesn't cut it becasue they don't offer shared history, or E2EE, or something else that's obviously not true. Those people are unlikely to change their system even when they learn that those features are available elsewhere. People are creatures of habit, and mass products are built with either heavy marketing or piggybacked on other systems' popularity. It's hard to break into a market, but if it's any consolation it's equally hard for non-free products.

dmitriid 5y ago
> that Matrix or Jabber doesn't cut it becasue they don't offer shared history, or E2EE, or something else that's obviously not true. It's obviously true because when you stat looking at, say, Jabber, it turns out that it only offers that for a single mobile client on Android that should connect to properly configured server with all the relevant XEPs enabled. So yes. For practical purposes Jabber doesn't cut it. No idea about Matrix.
- Conan_Kudo 5y ago
  On the Matrix side, it's a mandatory part of the protocol for a server, but not clients. Only some clients support negotiating E2EE right now, though the situation is improving quickly.
- feanaro 5y ago
  Shared history is Matrix's whole schtick. E2EE is supported in most popular clients.
noobermin 5y ago
The "creatures of habit" thing is definitely not true if people are literally closing their irc channels and joining discord.
- smolder 5y ago
  So, not figuratively closing them?
- DarylZero 5y ago
  Because of the new people who were born <25 years ago and never even used IRC. They have the habit to use a web service for everything, or at most a phone native "app" that they expect to be distributed by and integrated with some centralized service that exercises total control.
  - johnny22 5y ago
    That does happen,but I've used irc for over 10 years, and I'm down to hanging out in only 3 irc rooms. 2 of them are dev related. Otherwise, I'm in multiple discord "servers" or slack. I know i'm not the only one like that either.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Right, but we're just following the younger crowd.
  - pie_flavor 5y ago
    I don't use Discord's web client and it was ages before I used the mobile one, not that it makes sense to sneer at a native application on mobile but not a native application on desktop. What I have a habit for is using software that works well and has few sharp edges with minimal screwing around. If it comes with a centralized service or total control, that's still miles better than not being able to scroll up to see what people were talking about when you joined. Users do not care about protocols, they care about results. Mastodon proved that you can actually build a usable app on a federated service, so if IRC is the future, I'll consider going back to it once someone goes and actually makes it the future.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      The scroll up on IRC problem is typically solved with various "bnc" or "bouncer" mechanisms. I've also encountered an IRC server that caches and rebroadcasts the last hour of messages. But yeah with IRC you run into the problem that it wasn't originally designed for that use. > Mastodon proved that you can actually build a usable app on a federated service I don't see how anything needs to be "proved." Do we actually need proof that IRC could cache messages and repeat them for joining clients? It just wasn't originally designed that way. XMPP also has an extension for caching the scroll.

dmitriid 5y ago

> that Matrix or Jabber doesn't cut it becasue they don't offer shared history, or E2EE, or something else that's obviously not true. It's obviously true because when you stat looking at, say, Jabber, it turns out that it only offers that for a single mobile client on Android that should connect to properly configured server with all the relevant XEPs enabled. So yes. For practical purposes Jabber doesn't cut it. No idea about Matrix.

Conan_Kudo 5y ago
On the Matrix side, it's a mandatory part of the protocol for a server, but not clients. Only some clients support negotiating E2EE right now, though the situation is improving quickly.
feanaro 5y ago
Shared history is Matrix's whole schtick. E2EE is supported in most popular clients.

noobermin 5y ago

The "creatures of habit" thing is definitely not true if people are literally closing their irc channels and joining discord.

smolder 5y ago
So, not figuratively closing them?
DarylZero 5y ago
Because of the new people who were born <25 years ago and never even used IRC. They have the habit to use a web service for everything, or at most a phone native "app" that they expect to be distributed by and integrated with some centralized service that exercises total control.
- johnny22 5y ago
  That does happen,but I've used irc for over 10 years, and I'm down to hanging out in only 3 irc rooms. 2 of them are dev related. Otherwise, I'm in multiple discord "servers" or slack. I know i'm not the only one like that either.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Right, but we're just following the younger crowd.
- pie_flavor 5y ago
  I don't use Discord's web client and it was ages before I used the mobile one, not that it makes sense to sneer at a native application on mobile but not a native application on desktop. What I have a habit for is using software that works well and has few sharp edges with minimal screwing around. If it comes with a centralized service or total control, that's still miles better than not being able to scroll up to see what people were talking about when you joined. Users do not care about protocols, they care about results. Mastodon proved that you can actually build a usable app on a federated service, so if IRC is the future, I'll consider going back to it once someone goes and actually makes it the future.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    The scroll up on IRC problem is typically solved with various "bnc" or "bouncer" mechanisms. I've also encountered an IRC server that caches and rebroadcasts the last hour of messages. But yeah with IRC you run into the problem that it wasn't originally designed for that use. > Mastodon proved that you can actually build a usable app on a federated service I don't see how anything needs to be "proved." Do we actually need proof that IRC could cache messages and repeat them for joining clients? It just wasn't originally designed that way. XMPP also has an extension for caching the scroll.