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I agree that Discord ain't perfect, but over like 15 years of using various voips to talk with friends - ventrilo, mumble, teamspeak, skype and recently teams

I agree that Discord ain't perfect, but over like 15 years of using various voips to talk with friends - ventrilo, mumble, teamspeak, skype and recently teams I found Discord unparalleled - it has great chat, great voice, streaming, files/images sharing and also is centralized, thus secure for user. I don't have to worry about joining random ass server and then getting DDoS'd (yes, stuff like this happens, especially in gaming from my experience) ___________ >Users who cannot afford new enough hardware to make the resource-intensive client pleasant to use are also left by the wayside. Choosing Discord is a choice that excludes poor Sorry, but C++ compilers are N times more resource intensive than Discord's client Where's the boundary? what's the minimal level that should we "require"? Ability to code in VS Code? Visual Studio? JetBrain IDEs? ability to run Chrome? Firefox? VIM? 256 MB of RAM? NVMe M2 DISK? ________________ >are also locked out of the client until Discord sees fit to port it to their platform How about via browser? _______________ I'll go even further and provoke You're increasing entry level for younger/newbie developers by using arcane and dated ways of contributing instead of "standards" like GitHub.

dijit 5y ago
> Sorry, but C++ compilers are N times more resource intensive than Discord's client I personally don't have a problem with discords client, but this statement does more to harm your argument than you think it does. Compilation is a specialised process, and an intensive one. You might as well say "Why shouldn't my wallpaper use all my resources? Video editing does!". Niche workflows and one-off tasks are inherently different beasts than platform software which by its nature requires everyone to be running at the same time.
- tester756 5y ago
  >Niche workflows and one-off tasks. The context is about FOSS, I believe it's programming heavy, thus software compilation it's not niche workflow, but something that you do a few times per programming session. Some people within project don't write code, but majority I'd say at least tries. Where's middle ground?
  - dijit 5y ago
    OK, but here's my problem with that take: 1) CI/CD Systems exist, compilation does not have to be on my local machine. So do build farms. In Google compilation does not happen on your own machine. 2) Not all FOSS is compiled. (Python, Ruby, in some cases javascript; though that is increasingly not the case). 3) Not all FOSS contribution is compilation: Art, documentation, support. So a compiler does not need to be run by "everyone". But discord/slack/teams/irc/zulip/matrix and outlook/thunderbird/gmail kinda need to be run by everyone. In many cases the former (IM) need to be running all the time, where mail and others can run async. So, with all due respect, don't try to pretend that instant messengers should not be held to a higher standard than our developer tools; where the output is more important than the tool itself.
    - tester756 5y ago
      >So, with all due respect, don't try to pretend that instant messengers should not be held to a higher standard than our developer tools; where the output is more important than the tool itself. What are those standards? Look - Discord/Slack/Teams at the end of the day can be accessed via web browser just like normal page. I just checked and Microsoft Chrome with just Discord takes me 300MB of RAM Is it a lot (in general)? no Is it small amount? no. Firefox with 13 opened pages (some of them are just static pages like HN) takes above 1GB. What would be the amount that would satisfy you? 100MB? 50MB? 30MB?
      - dijit 5y ago
        I can tell by the tone of this comment that you're becoming aggravated. Lets try to cool our heads a little, I'm not attacking you or your ideas. The resource usage question is a real one, and nobody is going to give you a "standard" because it depends a lot, it depends what features are requested, it depends on what platforms it will be running. As I stated previously: Discord is by no means the worst offender when it comes to system resources. But how does it compare to IRC? Obviously there are way more features in discord.. and it looks nicer! Surely that's worth something! Yes, it's worth something. It can be interesting to take the reasons that people give for choosing discord (or, slack): Inclusivity. If you listen to certain people then you might believe that connecting to Zulip/Matrix or IRC requires a PhD. But it is less inclusive to force your users to eat up a "good portion" of their machine to talk to you. Discord for me, across its various processes is using about 400MB of ram after I open clean. This goes to about 900MB of ram if I leave it running all day, which I'm fine with because I have 32GB of ram. A person with a "modern household computer" (IE: a school age person who has what their parents would consider a "good enough" computer) might have 8G of ram, I know some people still using 4G of ram because their parents don't think more ram is worth buying a new computer after spending $500 two years ago. Are you comfortable taking nearly 1/4th-1/8th of a persons computer because you like the pretty images of discord? --- I should note, again, that discord is not the worst. But slack used to chew through multiple gigs of memory and pin a CPU core with the gif rendering for me. So while I definitely have a cross to burn about performance, my grievance is not specifically towards discord; but my "problem" would be completely alleviated if I could just use a third party client. But these walled garden companies do not want that.
posnet 5y ago
> "standards" like GitHub. GitHub is a for profit American company owned by Microsoft. They are beholden to no one other than their board, share holders, and US export control laws. Do not make the mistake of thinking they offer free repository hosting out of good will or altruism.
- tester756 5y ago
  I never said that they aren't doing it for money, but the giant majority of developers uses GH, thus it makes is some kind of standard. On job interviews they ask you about your GH (by default)
  - toastal 5y ago
    That's some bullshit IMO. The interviewers should ask for your Git forge(s) and not specify platform. I recently helped a team doing interviews and I had them do this. Did they get only GitHub links? Yes, but this didn't exclude anyone nor did it implicitly promote a platform and all candidates seemed to understand.
    - tester756 5y ago
      Ok, my bad on this saying that recruiters suggest GH, but What is one popular advice that people wanting to enter the industry do receive? - put some stuff on *gh*, very often.
ylyn 5y ago
> I found Discord unparalleled - it has great chat, great voice, streaming, files/images sharing Discord's voice and streaming are kind of crappy. > Sorry, but C++ compilers are N times more resource intensive than Discord's client Uh, I don't know what you're on. Discord's client is web-based and you claim it is less resource intensive than a C++ compiler? > Where's the boundary? what's the minimal level that should we "require"? > Ability to code in VS Code? Visual Studio? JetBrain IDEs? ability to run Chrome? Firefox? VIM? > 256 MB of RAM? NVMe M2 DISK? Not sure what you're talking about. > You're increasing entry level for younger/newbie developers by using arcane and dated ways of contributing instead of "standards" like GitHub. Sourcehut is by no means "arcane". Neither are Matrix, nor Mastodon. He didn't say everyone should send patches by email to mailing lists.
- tester756 5y ago
  >Uh, I don't know what you're on. Discord's client is web-based and you claim it is less resource intensive than a C++ compiler? I do. On bigger projects C++ compiler can be as heavy as triple A games. for comparison: I compiled C# compiler in 1/nth of the time that it took me compiling LLVM and it didnt ate my all gigs of RAM. >Not sure what you're talking about. Author claims that some people don't have good enough hardware for Discord That's fair, but what we should aim for? when I will know that my project's "environment" is too heavy because e.g I "require" contributors to use e.g some fancy tool like Docker with 5 containers that need 3GB of RAM

dijit 5y ago

> Sorry, but C++ compilers are N times more resource intensive than Discord's client I personally don't have a problem with discords client, but this statement does more to harm your argument than you think it does. Compilation is a specialised process, and an intensive one. You might as well say "Why shouldn't my wallpaper use all my resources? Video editing does!". Niche workflows and one-off tasks are inherently different beasts than platform software which by its nature requires everyone to be running at the same time.

tester756 5y ago
>Niche workflows and one-off tasks. The context is about FOSS, I believe it's programming heavy, thus software compilation it's not niche workflow, but something that you do a few times per programming session. Some people within project don't write code, but majority I'd say at least tries. Where's middle ground?
- dijit 5y ago
  OK, but here's my problem with that take: 1) CI/CD Systems exist, compilation does not have to be on my local machine. So do build farms. In Google compilation does not happen on your own machine. 2) Not all FOSS is compiled. (Python, Ruby, in some cases javascript; though that is increasingly not the case). 3) Not all FOSS contribution is compilation: Art, documentation, support. So a compiler does not need to be run by "everyone". But discord/slack/teams/irc/zulip/matrix and outlook/thunderbird/gmail kinda need to be run by everyone. In many cases the former (IM) need to be running all the time, where mail and others can run async. So, with all due respect, don't try to pretend that instant messengers should not be held to a higher standard than our developer tools; where the output is more important than the tool itself.
  - tester756 5y ago
    >So, with all due respect, don't try to pretend that instant messengers should not be held to a higher standard than our developer tools; where the output is more important than the tool itself. What are those standards? Look - Discord/Slack/Teams at the end of the day can be accessed via web browser just like normal page. I just checked and Microsoft Chrome with just Discord takes me 300MB of RAM Is it a lot (in general)? no Is it small amount? no. Firefox with 13 opened pages (some of them are just static pages like HN) takes above 1GB. What would be the amount that would satisfy you? 100MB? 50MB? 30MB?
    - dijit 5y ago
      I can tell by the tone of this comment that you're becoming aggravated. Lets try to cool our heads a little, I'm not attacking you or your ideas. The resource usage question is a real one, and nobody is going to give you a "standard" because it depends a lot, it depends what features are requested, it depends on what platforms it will be running. As I stated previously: Discord is by no means the worst offender when it comes to system resources. But how does it compare to IRC? Obviously there are way more features in discord.. and it looks nicer! Surely that's worth something! Yes, it's worth something. It can be interesting to take the reasons that people give for choosing discord (or, slack): Inclusivity. If you listen to certain people then you might believe that connecting to Zulip/Matrix or IRC requires a PhD. But it is less inclusive to force your users to eat up a "good portion" of their machine to talk to you. Discord for me, across its various processes is using about 400MB of ram after I open clean. This goes to about 900MB of ram if I leave it running all day, which I'm fine with because I have 32GB of ram. A person with a "modern household computer" (IE: a school age person who has what their parents would consider a "good enough" computer) might have 8G of ram, I know some people still using 4G of ram because their parents don't think more ram is worth buying a new computer after spending $500 two years ago. Are you comfortable taking nearly 1/4th-1/8th of a persons computer because you like the pretty images of discord? --- I should note, again, that discord is not the worst. But slack used to chew through multiple gigs of memory and pin a CPU core with the gif rendering for me. So while I definitely have a cross to burn about performance, my grievance is not specifically towards discord; but my "problem" would be completely alleviated if I could just use a third party client. But these walled garden companies do not want that.

posnet 5y ago

> "standards" like GitHub. GitHub is a for profit American company owned by Microsoft. They are beholden to no one other than their board, share holders, and US export control laws. Do not make the mistake of thinking they offer free repository hosting out of good will or altruism.

tester756 5y ago
I never said that they aren't doing it for money, but the giant majority of developers uses GH, thus it makes is some kind of standard. On job interviews they ask you about your GH (by default)
- toastal 5y ago
  That's some bullshit IMO. The interviewers should ask for your Git forge(s) and not specify platform. I recently helped a team doing interviews and I had them do this. Did they get only GitHub links? Yes, but this didn't exclude anyone nor did it implicitly promote a platform and all candidates seemed to understand.
  - tester756 5y ago
    Ok, my bad on this saying that recruiters suggest GH, but What is one popular advice that people wanting to enter the industry do receive? - put some stuff on *gh*, very often.

ylyn 5y ago

> I found Discord unparalleled - it has great chat, great voice, streaming, files/images sharing Discord's voice and streaming are kind of crappy. > Sorry, but C++ compilers are N times more resource intensive than Discord's client Uh, I don't know what you're on. Discord's client is web-based and you claim it is less resource intensive than a C++ compiler? > Where's the boundary? what's the minimal level that should we "require"? > Ability to code in VS Code? Visual Studio? JetBrain IDEs? ability to run Chrome? Firefox? VIM? > 256 MB of RAM? NVMe M2 DISK? Not sure what you're talking about. > You're increasing entry level for younger/newbie developers by using arcane and dated ways of contributing instead of "standards" like GitHub. Sourcehut is by no means "arcane". Neither are Matrix, nor Mastodon. He didn't say everyone should send patches by email to mailing lists.

tester756 5y ago
>Uh, I don't know what you're on. Discord's client is web-based and you claim it is less resource intensive than a C++ compiler? I do. On bigger projects C++ compiler can be as heavy as triple A games. for comparison: I compiled C# compiler in 1/nth of the time that it took me compiling LLVM and it didnt ate my all gigs of RAM. >Not sure what you're talking about. Author claims that some people don't have good enough hardware for Discord That's fair, but what we should aim for? when I will know that my project's "environment" is too heavy because e.g I "require" contributors to use e.g some fancy tool like Docker with 5 containers that need 3GB of RAM