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The source for the information is a warning to parents about the challenge. Alexa only returned the challenge statement, without the context of it being potenti

The source for the information is a warning to parents about the challenge. Alexa only returned the challenge statement, without the context of it being potentially life threatening. A search would have been fine.

gruez 5y ago
>A search would have been fine. But what about a search that didn't return it, or returned it in a way that's not really obvious (ie. google's answer panels for questions)? Should we report google and/or the computer manufacturer to the CSPC?
- shkkmo 5y ago
  If the answer panels are stripping important safety information out in a way that endangers children? I would so say your should definitely report Google.
- foxfluff 5y ago
  I think there's a difference in how you present the information. So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility (-> don't do it if you can't take responsibility), and dangerous/libelous/etc. information perhaps should be reported if it appears as the though the site returning it is providing editorialized content and not just aggregated search results. On the other hand, the status quo is kinda funny: https://i.imgur.com/ux42v8p.png https://i.imgur.com/ux42v8p.png
  - gruez 5y ago
    > So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is? I'm sure some do, but are the ones who don't out of luck? I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself.
    - foxfluff 5y ago
      > I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself. That's exactly why I consider those info boxes potentially problematic. If people trust Google and don't understand how the info box is formed, they will take it for an authoritative source which is exactly the problem with it. Google perhaps should not show those info boxes if they cannot stand behind the information presented within. Same thing with Alexa, if kids blindly trust it instead of treating it like snippets of text that happened to match on some page.. that's concerning. > That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is? I don't know exactly how a kid views Alexa and how they view search engines. To them, is Alexa just a toy, just another way to look things up on the net, or is it something more? I certainly knew what search is, at the age of 10 (come on, searching is pretty much the first thing you learn to do online), but there was nothing like Alexa in my life. The question is not do they know exactly what a search engine is, but how much do they "trust" (or what kind of authority do they attribute to) Alexa vs how much they trust the list of results in search. I think Alexa is more opaque than a list of search results and there's a real possibility that kids would "trust" it (and also Google's info boxes etc.) more than they trust the obvious list of snippets of matching text on web sites. Obviously, there's no way to click Alexa for more context, or is there? It just blurts out "facts", not entirely unlike Google does with their info boxes. You don't get to judge whether these "facts" come from a sketchy site or forum or whatever else. Is "here's something I found on the web" sufficient to clue the kid on that it's just a search result and information taken out of context? I think there's some subtlety that might be harder to comprehend than in a list of clickable links with bolded snippets of text.
- dcanelhas 5y ago
  If you find that Google is returning suggestions leading to self-harm as "answers" to unrelated queries such as "what should I do today?", why not let CSPC investigate the issue? I get the impression people are arguing against the idea of customer protection reviewing Google Search/Alexa out of fear for the continued existence of computers, computing, free speech, and open access to information. What do you believe is at stake here? Do you believe they're going to shut down the internet?

gruez 5y ago

>A search would have been fine. But what about a search that didn't return it, or returned it in a way that's not really obvious (ie. google's answer panels for questions)? Should we report google and/or the computer manufacturer to the CSPC?

shkkmo 5y ago
If the answer panels are stripping important safety information out in a way that endangers children? I would so say your should definitely report Google.
foxfluff 5y ago
I think there's a difference in how you present the information. So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility (-> don't do it if you can't take responsibility), and dangerous/libelous/etc. information perhaps should be reported if it appears as the though the site returning it is providing editorialized content and not just aggregated search results. On the other hand, the status quo is kinda funny: https://i.imgur.com/ux42v8p.png https://i.imgur.com/ux42v8p.png
- gruez 5y ago
  > So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is? I'm sure some do, but are the ones who don't out of luck? I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself.
  - foxfluff 5y ago
    > I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself. That's exactly why I consider those info boxes potentially problematic. If people trust Google and don't understand how the info box is formed, they will take it for an authoritative source which is exactly the problem with it. Google perhaps should not show those info boxes if they cannot stand behind the information presented within. Same thing with Alexa, if kids blindly trust it instead of treating it like snippets of text that happened to match on some page.. that's concerning. > That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is? I don't know exactly how a kid views Alexa and how they view search engines. To them, is Alexa just a toy, just another way to look things up on the net, or is it something more? I certainly knew what search is, at the age of 10 (come on, searching is pretty much the first thing you learn to do online), but there was nothing like Alexa in my life. The question is not do they know exactly what a search engine is, but how much do they "trust" (or what kind of authority do they attribute to) Alexa vs how much they trust the list of results in search. I think Alexa is more opaque than a list of search results and there's a real possibility that kids would "trust" it (and also Google's info boxes etc.) more than they trust the obvious list of snippets of matching text on web sites. Obviously, there's no way to click Alexa for more context, or is there? It just blurts out "facts", not entirely unlike Google does with their info boxes. You don't get to judge whether these "facts" come from a sketchy site or forum or whatever else. Is "here's something I found on the web" sufficient to clue the kid on that it's just a search result and information taken out of context? I think there's some subtlety that might be harder to comprehend than in a list of clickable links with bolded snippets of text.
dcanelhas 5y ago
If you find that Google is returning suggestions leading to self-harm as "answers" to unrelated queries such as "what should I do today?", why not let CSPC investigate the issue? I get the impression people are arguing against the idea of customer protection reviewing Google Search/Alexa out of fear for the continued existence of computers, computing, free speech, and open access to information. What do you believe is at stake here? Do you believe they're going to shut down the internet?