4 ms·

We were never close to this. You have to accept we need nurses, hairdressers and farmers and these people cant be expected to do the work required to maintain a

by xwolfi 5y ago

We were never close to this. You have to accept we need nurses, hairdressers and farmers and these people cant be expected to do the work required to maintain a critical email server on top of everything else they have to do. Look I heard in the US some people even have several jobs, I suppose by end of your second or third shift of the day, the last thing you want to do is a log4j patch type upgrade... doubly so when it's christmas and the kids are noisy.

necovek 5y ago
Does that not make it obvious that the problem is in the distribution of software? I run my own server and I don't want to care if any of the installed apps I run depend on log4j somewhere in the chain. I so far trust my Ubuntu LTS package archive to give me sufficient security updates for stuff I install from main, and this is the reason I avoid non-main software, but even Ubuntu is moving away from this model to snaps and such.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  Yes but why Ubuntu LTS, gmail is even better at it: you dont even need to learn what a package is and you can focus on breaking your back 16 hours a day to pay your credit card debts. You overestimate the time available to people and that's why google can shove its ads down our throats in exchange for a huge time gain for everyone. Fix that first, then tell people to update their mail daemon.
  - necovek 5y ago
    That's quite a difference: gmail does not provide strictly security updates, but might change the entire UI/UX on their whim (or get cancelled: Google has infamously done that a lot). But, I am not saying that even LTS approach is sufficient, but that we could work on improving it so it's trivial for anyone to do (people using laundromats probably have no idea what a "filter" is in a washer either: that's not a barrier for people to get one, though).

4 ms·

We were never close to this. You have to accept we need nurses, hairdressers and farmers and these people cant be expected to do the work required to maintain a

by xwolfi 5y ago

necovek 5y ago
Does that not make it obvious that the problem is in the distribution of software? I run my own server and I don't want to care if any of the installed apps I run depend on log4j somewhere in the chain. I so far trust my Ubuntu LTS package archive to give me sufficient security updates for stuff I install from main, and this is the reason I avoid non-main software, but even Ubuntu is moving away from this model to snaps and such.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  Yes but why Ubuntu LTS, gmail is even better at it: you dont even need to learn what a package is and you can focus on breaking your back 16 hours a day to pay your credit card debts. You overestimate the time available to people and that's why google can shove its ads down our throats in exchange for a huge time gain for everyone. Fix that first, then tell people to update their mail daemon.
  - necovek 5y ago
    That's quite a difference: gmail does not provide strictly security updates, but might change the entire UI/UX on their whim (or get cancelled: Google has infamously done that a lot). But, I am not saying that even LTS approach is sufficient, but that we could work on improving it so it's trivial for anyone to do (people using laundromats probably have no idea what a "filter" is in a washer either: that's not a barrier for people to get one, though).