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> It would be important to be factual about it, too, but some Governments are not; if it turns out (premortem or postmortem) that you are positive for COVID-19,

> It would be important to be factual about it, too, but some Governments are not; if it turns out (premortem or postmortem) that you are positive for COVID-19, your cause of death will be COVID-19, and you go into the statistics of COVID-19 deaths. Luck would have it that I am close to people who literally wrote the training for the CDC guidelines for death certificate handling, and instructions to the doctors. You're wrong on that and I have the citations to prove it. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/death11-03final-acc.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/death11-03final-acc.pdf This is an official death certificate. The section you're worried about is section 32, "Cause of Death". --------- > Enter the chain of events--diseases, injuries, or complications--that directly caused the death. Another person in her office handles the death certificate processing for official CDC stats. Only if the doctor's argument for the exact chain of events includes COVID19 are they included on the COVID19 death counts. -------- The CDC publishes its guidance on its website, and in many other forms: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf These documents are dated and controlled. We therefore know the exact wording of the training, guidance, and other such documents for how to fill out "cause of death" (line 32 on the death certificate). ------- You can request the chain of death statistics from the CDC IIRC. They're almost all "Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome" (aka: patient is having difficulty breathing, and then died), caused by pneumonia, caused by COVID19. Its pretty damn clear when something is a death by ARDS (its literally on the death certificate), vs say, a Car Accident. In fact, COVID19 is __NOT__ a direct cause of death, no more than AIDS is a direct cause of death. The literal death is "heart attack", or "ARDS", with a chain pointing to COVID19 (or suspected COVID19). As it turns out, the bureaucrats who literally have PH.Ds in death certificate handling have a more nuanced view than you do on death certificate handling and processing. Who'd a thunk it? Look: there's a controversy all the time when it comes to death counts. When New York Times reports a different number of deaths due to say, Hurricane Maria, the CDC gets the blame for that (even if NYT was wrong and CDC numbers were right and double-checked)... or Tobacco claiming the tobacco deaths are wrong, or whatever. These people are very used to controversy and are very careful about crossing all their Ts and dotting all their I's. That's literally their job.

johnisgood 5y ago
I left out an important information: I am not speaking about the US, because I do not have any idea about it. What I said applies here in Eastern Europe[1], it is a known fact. They go into the statistics of COVID-19 deaths if they are positive for it, even if the actual cause of death is something else. Want to hear an anecdote? About 1.5 years ago when one of my relative's husband died, cops contacted my relative and asked her if they could claim that the death was caused by COVID-19, and if she agrees, she would get some amount of money (!). Things may have changed now: they do not ask. Truth be told, if someone told me this, I would have been hesitant to believe it, but it happened to my relative! [1] I read comments here where it applied to Germany, as well as a couple of other European countries.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Except that argument is backwards from real-politik. Any politician who is in charge of an area wants to pretend that the case numbers are lower than they actually are. See China for instance. Doesn't matter if you're local, state, or national levels. The real-politick move is to pretend your counts are far lower than reality. When in doubt about reality, focus on the real-politik. Conspiracies that go against human nature should be discounted.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    Mate, higher death counts were supposed to cause "panic" and encourage people to obey by the restrictions and to get the vaccine. They have been telling us in every way possible to get the vaccine, for example. Everywhere you looked, you got "register for vaccine as quickly as you can!"... now you do not even have to register anymore. They are saying "come, get the vaccine" without registering. Higher death counts was supposed to be another way of encouraging people to get the vaccine, and to wear masks where they gotta, and so forth. What for do you think they wanted a lower count? "real-politik"... right.

johnisgood 5y ago

I left out an important information: I am not speaking about the US, because I do not have any idea about it. What I said applies here in Eastern Europe[1], it is a known fact. They go into the statistics of COVID-19 deaths if they are positive for it, even if the actual cause of death is something else. Want to hear an anecdote? About 1.5 years ago when one of my relative's husband died, cops contacted my relative and asked her if they could claim that the death was caused by COVID-19, and if she agrees, she would get some amount of money (!). Things may have changed now: they do not ask. Truth be told, if someone told me this, I would have been hesitant to believe it, but it happened to my relative! [1] I read comments here where it applied to Germany, as well as a couple of other European countries.

dragontamer 5y ago
Except that argument is backwards from real-politik. Any politician who is in charge of an area wants to pretend that the case numbers are lower than they actually are. See China for instance. Doesn't matter if you're local, state, or national levels. The real-politick move is to pretend your counts are far lower than reality. When in doubt about reality, focus on the real-politik. Conspiracies that go against human nature should be discounted.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Mate, higher death counts were supposed to cause "panic" and encourage people to obey by the restrictions and to get the vaccine. They have been telling us in every way possible to get the vaccine, for example. Everywhere you looked, you got "register for vaccine as quickly as you can!"... now you do not even have to register anymore. They are saying "come, get the vaccine" without registering. Higher death counts was supposed to be another way of encouraging people to get the vaccine, and to wear masks where they gotta, and so forth. What for do you think they wanted a lower count? "real-politik"... right.