4 ms·

I'm sure there were more overdoses and suicides due to the lockdowns too.

samspenc 5y ago
And there were indeed more of both: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/11/17/overdose-deaths-soar-record-level-amid-pandemic-rise-fentanyl/8629870002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/11/17/overdo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/teen-suicide-attempts-surged-during-lockdowns-cdc-study-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/teen-suic...
- woodruffw 5y ago
  There were more overdoses, but fewer suicides. Your second link references teen suicide attempts, which are neither representative of the overall suicidal demographic nor reflect actual suicide rates.
  - priansh 5y ago
    Suicide rates are tricky since mental health can have long lasting issues and the societal changes from lockdown will have even longer term effects. How do you attribute a suicide 2 years from now to depression that started during COVID? It’s going to be interesting seeing how the psychology field approaches this.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      This is indeed an open question, and it's one we're going to need to address over the expected lifetimes of every single person who's living through COVID. We'll also need to address it for COVID "long-haulers," given that individuals with severely diminished qualities of life are a high-risk suicide group.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      While that's true, a solid chunk (1/3) of suicides are based on pretty short cycles. That's why preventing a suicide is so valuable - 1/3 people you prevent are no more likely to attempt suicide again than a random person on the street. And that's without any psychological intervention. With therapy, that number gets even higher.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  Not in New Zealand - our suicide rate went down. https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Chief-Coroner-releases-annual-suicide-statistics-launches-new-web-tool-with-Ministry-of-Health2.pdf https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Chie...
IAmGraydon 5y ago
You’re getting downvoted because you appear to be guessing, even though you’re right…suicides and overdoses did indeed go up.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  As I cited elsewhere in the thread: suicides went down in 2020, not up[1]. Drug overdose deaths are indeed up[2]. But they're an order of magnitude below COVID deaths, even before adjusting for undercounting. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/VSRR016.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/VSRR016.pdf [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/20211117.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/...
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    I wonder what the median age for overdose deaths are compared to covid deaths.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      I don't know how recent these numbers are, but the 25-44 and 45-54 male demographics are apparently over-represented in overdose deaths[1]. It's similarly hard to find up-to-date median age statistics for COVID deaths (and this is particularly troublesome, since the median age for COVID deaths should intuitively decrease over time), but the primary demographic seems to be >65 in most developed countries[2]. Interestingly, from that same source, it's lower in developing and undeveloped countries. [1]: https://www.projectknow.com/discover/the-age-of-overdose/ https://www.projectknow.com/discover/the-age-of-overdose/ [2]: https://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/too-young-die-age-and-death-covid-19-around-globe https://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/too-young-die-ag...
  - DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
    ending it with an overdose does sound like a very accessible and "clean" method to end life if you're either an addict or even for non addicts who have access to hard drugs. And how many of those who are addicts engage in "suicidal ideation". Is a an addict that ends themselves statistically counted as a drug casualty and at what point do we see them as just another human being that decided to end their life. For all we know the drug might have been the only reason that kept them from not committing suicide much sooner (and while sober). it seems an odd line to draw IMO

And there were indeed more of both: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/11/17/overdose-deaths-soar-record-level-amid-pandemic-rise-fentanyl/8629870002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/11/17/overdo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/teen-suicide-attempts-surged-during-lockdowns-cdc-study-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/teen-suic...

woodruffw 5y ago
There were more overdoses, but fewer suicides. Your second link references teen suicide attempts, which are neither representative of the overall suicidal demographic nor reflect actual suicide rates.
- priansh 5y ago
  Suicide rates are tricky since mental health can have long lasting issues and the societal changes from lockdown will have even longer term effects. How do you attribute a suicide 2 years from now to depression that started during COVID? It’s going to be interesting seeing how the psychology field approaches this.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    This is indeed an open question, and it's one we're going to need to address over the expected lifetimes of every single person who's living through COVID. We'll also need to address it for COVID "long-haulers," given that individuals with severely diminished qualities of life are a high-risk suicide group.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    While that's true, a solid chunk (1/3) of suicides are based on pretty short cycles. That's why preventing a suicide is so valuable - 1/3 people you prevent are no more likely to attempt suicide again than a random person on the street. And that's without any psychological intervention. With therapy, that number gets even higher.
lostlogin 5y ago
Not in New Zealand - our suicide rate went down. https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Chief-Coroner-releases-annual-suicide-statistics-launches-new-web-tool-with-Ministry-of-Health2.pdf https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Chie...

IAmGraydon 5y ago

You’re getting downvoted because you appear to be guessing, even though you’re right…suicides and overdoses did indeed go up.

woodruffw 5y ago
As I cited elsewhere in the thread: suicides went down in 2020, not up[1]. Drug overdose deaths are indeed up[2]. But they're an order of magnitude below COVID deaths, even before adjusting for undercounting. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/VSRR016.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/VSRR016.pdf [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/20211117.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/...
- disambiguation 5y ago
  I wonder what the median age for overdose deaths are compared to covid deaths.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I don't know how recent these numbers are, but the 25-44 and 45-54 male demographics are apparently over-represented in overdose deaths[1]. It's similarly hard to find up-to-date median age statistics for COVID deaths (and this is particularly troublesome, since the median age for COVID deaths should intuitively decrease over time), but the primary demographic seems to be >65 in most developed countries[2]. Interestingly, from that same source, it's lower in developing and undeveloped countries. [1]: https://www.projectknow.com/discover/the-age-of-overdose/ https://www.projectknow.com/discover/the-age-of-overdose/ [2]: https://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/too-young-die-age-and-death-covid-19-around-globe https://blogs.worldbank.org/developmenttalk/too-young-die-ag...
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  ending it with an overdose does sound like a very accessible and "clean" method to end life if you're either an addict or even for non addicts who have access to hard drugs. And how many of those who are addicts engage in "suicidal ideation". Is a an addict that ends themselves statistically counted as a drug casualty and at what point do we see them as just another human being that decided to end their life. For all we know the drug might have been the only reason that kept them from not committing suicide much sooner (and while sober). it seems an odd line to draw IMO