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> What do you mean here? Griggs v. Duke Power held that if a test has a disparate impact on ethnic minorities, then the burden of proof is on employers to demo

> What do you mean here? Griggs v. Duke Power held that if a test has a disparate impact on ethnic minorities, then the burden of proof is on employers to demonstrate that the test is reasonably related to the job. The practical effect is that private employers are highly unlikely to use these tests, since doing so opens themselves up to liability, particularly since due to socioeconomic factors any fair test will have a disparate impact. For example, the tests in the particular case were a general IQ test and a mechanical aptitude test. > I can't square my experience and your statement. Every particular instance you gave was of a public employer, but I was careful to note that employers practically may not use proficiency exams. It's not directly illegal, and some employers might use them because either they do not realise how much liability they are exposed to, or because they have been very careful to justify them.

tdeck 5y ago
Not the op, but I'm still having a hard time buying this argument that assessment tests "practically" may not be used when Walmart, Home Depot, IBM, and Epic use them, and countless companies required me to fill out their questionable Unicru personality assessments in the 2010s when applying for a summer job. And those are just the big names that folks here might have heard of and that I knew from memory. Clearly this particular decision hasn't been a big barrier to implementing various kinds of pre-employment tests in the US.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Griggs v. Duke Power held that if a test has a disparate impact on ethnic minorities, then the burden of proof is on employers to demonstrate that the test is reasonably related to the job. It actually held that for any employer-imposed hiring requirement (not merely a test), and later cases have made it clear that applies pretty much to any element of the hiring, advancement, retention, or disciplinary process. > The practical effect is that private employers are highly unlikely to use these tests No, its not. The practical effect is that employers doing cargo cult HR (which is quite common) are highly unlikely to use the specific tests that have been at issue in superficially well-known cases like Griggs (e.g., specifically due to Griggs, IQ tests) even when they could easily meet the test laid out Griggs but simultaneously using many employer-imposed job requirements for which they could not meet the test. OTOH, employers that have decent legal advice regularly use tests of even the specific types that have been problematic in other cases, but make sure that there is a job rationale supported by evidence for both tests and other requirements in case they are challenged, because that’s the thing that actually matters. Proficiency exams are exceedingly common (heck, when I did clerical temporary work for a while, it was pretty much the entirety of the hiring and placement process.)

tdeck 5y ago

Not the op, but I'm still having a hard time buying this argument that assessment tests "practically" may not be used when Walmart, Home Depot, IBM, and Epic use them, and countless companies required me to fill out their questionable Unicru personality assessments in the 2010s when applying for a summer job. And those are just the big names that folks here might have heard of and that I knew from memory. Clearly this particular decision hasn't been a big barrier to implementing various kinds of pre-employment tests in the US.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Griggs v. Duke Power held that if a test has a disparate impact on ethnic minorities, then the burden of proof is on employers to demonstrate that the test is reasonably related to the job. It actually held that for any employer-imposed hiring requirement (not merely a test), and later cases have made it clear that applies pretty much to any element of the hiring, advancement, retention, or disciplinary process. > The practical effect is that private employers are highly unlikely to use these tests No, its not. The practical effect is that employers doing cargo cult HR (which is quite common) are highly unlikely to use the specific tests that have been at issue in superficially well-known cases like Griggs (e.g., specifically due to Griggs, IQ tests) even when they could easily meet the test laid out Griggs but simultaneously using many employer-imposed job requirements for which they could not meet the test. OTOH, employers that have decent legal advice regularly use tests of even the specific types that have been problematic in other cases, but make sure that there is a job rationale supported by evidence for both tests and other requirements in case they are challenged, because that’s the thing that actually matters. Proficiency exams are exceedingly common (heck, when I did clerical temporary work for a while, it was pretty much the entirety of the hiring and placement process.)