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I’m curious. How did you originally arrive at the conclusion that god didn’t exist?

deeng 5y ago
Atheism doesn't necessarily imply concluding that no gods exist. It's merely not accepting the claim that any do exist.
simonh 5y ago
Good question, hope you don’t mind me jumping in. For me as a teenager or even younger, reading about various faiths and mythologies, I was thinking about which faith was the right one. Obviously I could simply choose the one of my parents and the adults around me followed, but I went to a school with Muslims, Hindu and Buddhist children too. Was I really supposed to try and convert them? None of the Christian teachers did. It all made no sense. Everybody was just doing and saying what their parents told them to, and actually thinking or talking about it and taking it actually seriously just seemed absurd. Nobody was actually following through on what the scriptures said they aught to be doing, if it really was all true, and if they had that would be even worse. So it wasn’t so much deciding god doesn’t exist, it was that if god does exist, which version is it and how would I know? From there concluding that religion is an entirely artificial social construct was a pretty small step. Having said that, I also concluded that spirituality is clearly a ubiquitous human experience. Religion seems to be a response to a universal, or near universal impulse that it’s worth taking seriously.
- klipt 5y ago
  > From there concluding that religion is an entirely artificial social construct was a pretty small step. I'd say religion is more an evolved phenomenon than a constructed one. Religious groups tend to have more children than secular groups, which suggests religion confers an advantage to a group's evolutionary fitness.
  - Trex_Egg 5y ago
    I agree, but there may be a tipping point of equilibrium to that social construct. Cause at the end of the there should be some logic and reasoning has to there to feed the family. At least in this modern day. Due to modern education system and scientific thinking clears out most of the dogma imposed on to people by religion. And I can see the current religion leaders embracing them, as it was their own. And we will see how the religion will evolve or devolve in this modern era of logic and reasoning.
- aristofun 5y ago
  Ironically you can never strictly prove that something doesn't exist. But something's existence in theory can be proven by mere act of finding or defining it.
- Trex_Egg 5y ago
  Social construct like money has some good use.
cogman10 5y ago
We all come by it by different ways but I'll share my story. I was mormon up until around 30ish. However, researching the history of the mormon religion ultimately led me to completely disbelieve the faith claims of the church. From there, atheism was just sort of natural. Why, for example, would I suddenly believe that any other religious sect got it's supernatural claims correct when the one I was raised with, got a bunch of the "good feelings" from and was 1000% convinced was true ended up having really major issues? I certainly could be convinced there is a god, but it cannot be through emotions. My emotions held me in mormonism for far to long. I know emotions can trick, deceive, and are easily played to. The right type of music or a charismatic orator can easily trigger them. So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few). If there is an all knowing, loving god that cares about me, then that god would know exactly how to present me the evidence I need to believe in it. If that god doesn't care about me, then why should I care about it? And, if there's a supernatural belief without a god that I should believe in for afterlife rewards... well, there's just no way for me to correctly stumble into it. I need evidence that I'll be reincarnated as a spider if I don't believe in reincarnation, and that seems pretty tough to prove.
- memling 5y ago
  > So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few). What tools would you use to prove supernatural claims?
  - cogman10 5y ago
    Ultimately it depends on the claim, but the basis of it would that you'd have to be able to both test and repeatably reproduce whatever effect is claimed. For example, let's say the claim is "God will heal you if you pray to him". Ok, let's pray that someone is healed in the hospital. How about another? And another? Do those prayers fail? Why? The issue that one runs into is that the prayers will often fail and the answer is generally "mysterious ways". Yet, no religion seems to statistically fair better than other religions when it comes to diseases. So either, the prayer isn't working, or god is working extra hard to make sure to hide itself (Why would a divine being do that?) Some claims I'll just reject outright. If the proof is "feelings" that's manipulation, not proof. Because, as I said, feelings are easily triggered. Pretty much every religion has figured that one out.

Atheism doesn't necessarily imply concluding that no gods exist. It's merely not accepting the claim that any do exist.

Good question, hope you don’t mind me jumping in. For me as a teenager or even younger, reading about various faiths and mythologies, I was thinking about which faith was the right one. Obviously I could simply choose the one of my parents and the adults around me followed, but I went to a school with Muslims, Hindu and Buddhist children too. Was I really supposed to try and convert them? None of the Christian teachers did. It all made no sense. Everybody was just doing and saying what their parents told them to, and actually thinking or talking about it and taking it actually seriously just seemed absurd. Nobody was actually following through on what the scriptures said they aught to be doing, if it really was all true, and if they had that would be even worse. So it wasn’t so much deciding god doesn’t exist, it was that if god does exist, which version is it and how would I know? From there concluding that religion is an entirely artificial social construct was a pretty small step. Having said that, I also concluded that spirituality is clearly a ubiquitous human experience. Religion seems to be a response to a universal, or near universal impulse that it’s worth taking seriously.

klipt 5y ago
> From there concluding that religion is an entirely artificial social construct was a pretty small step. I'd say religion is more an evolved phenomenon than a constructed one. Religious groups tend to have more children than secular groups, which suggests religion confers an advantage to a group's evolutionary fitness.
- Trex_Egg 5y ago
  I agree, but there may be a tipping point of equilibrium to that social construct. Cause at the end of the there should be some logic and reasoning has to there to feed the family. At least in this modern day. Due to modern education system and scientific thinking clears out most of the dogma imposed on to people by religion. And I can see the current religion leaders embracing them, as it was their own. And we will see how the religion will evolve or devolve in this modern era of logic and reasoning.
aristofun 5y ago
Ironically you can never strictly prove that something doesn't exist. But something's existence in theory can be proven by mere act of finding or defining it.
Trex_Egg 5y ago
Social construct like money has some good use.

cogman10 5y ago

We all come by it by different ways but I'll share my story. I was mormon up until around 30ish. However, researching the history of the mormon religion ultimately led me to completely disbelieve the faith claims of the church. From there, atheism was just sort of natural. Why, for example, would I suddenly believe that any other religious sect got it's supernatural claims correct when the one I was raised with, got a bunch of the "good feelings" from and was 1000% convinced was true ended up having really major issues? I certainly could be convinced there is a god, but it cannot be through emotions. My emotions held me in mormonism for far to long. I know emotions can trick, deceive, and are easily played to. The right type of music or a charismatic orator can easily trigger them. So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few). If there is an all knowing, loving god that cares about me, then that god would know exactly how to present me the evidence I need to believe in it. If that god doesn't care about me, then why should I care about it? And, if there's a supernatural belief without a god that I should believe in for afterlife rewards... well, there's just no way for me to correctly stumble into it. I need evidence that I'll be reincarnated as a spider if I don't believe in reincarnation, and that seems pretty tough to prove.

memling 5y ago
> So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few). What tools would you use to prove supernatural claims?
- cogman10 5y ago
  Ultimately it depends on the claim, but the basis of it would that you'd have to be able to both test and repeatably reproduce whatever effect is claimed. For example, let's say the claim is "God will heal you if you pray to him". Ok, let's pray that someone is healed in the hospital. How about another? And another? Do those prayers fail? Why? The issue that one runs into is that the prayers will often fail and the answer is generally "mysterious ways". Yet, no religion seems to statistically fair better than other religions when it comes to diseases. So either, the prayer isn't working, or god is working extra hard to make sure to hide itself (Why would a divine being do that?) Some claims I'll just reject outright. If the proof is "feelings" that's manipulation, not proof. Because, as I said, feelings are easily triggered. Pretty much every religion has figured that one out.