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IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. There’s a non-trivial chance you will spend hours and hours refla

IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. There’s a non-trivial chance you will spend hours and hours reflashing your router and reading forum posts until you eventually brick it. It’s just like Raspberry Pis. Theoretically the right choice but practically speaking a huge time sink and poor, unstable experience that is best left to hobbiest tinkering or networking professionals with a lot of spare time.

Faaak 5y ago
I don't really see what you're talking about. I've flashed all of my routers and _never_ had a problem. Maybe the thing that took me the most time was to decide which version to use or whether I should use openwrt vs tomato vs other competitors
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  Your post history says you use Dvorak and Vim, and were tinkering with your school’s network at 15, so I think my point stands :)
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Everyone should strive to this level of competence, and I like that some of the posts here (like advice for installing OpenWRT) kind of force it Breaking stuff and then fixing it is the fast track for learning If you're not a smart computer guy then maybe this isnt the forum for you
    - D13Fd 5y ago
      Being efficient is part of being smart. Sadly the older you are the less time you have to spend time trying to fix things that you don't care about, and the less the knowledge you gain is worth to you (simply because you have less career- and life-span left to use it). Yes, I've flashed routers in the past, including the Linksys WRT54G, and in some cases I've even built a dedicated PC to run as a router, back when that was a bit more in vogue. But is it worth the time to do it yet again? Probably not. I'd rather get an Apple-like router that works perfectly out of the box, with sensible defaults and little configuration necessary, and which is regularly auto-updated with security fixes. That way I can spend my time on new things.
  - yladiz 5y ago
    I would second the parent, I installed and use OpenWRT on my router without much issue. Flashing and configuring was quite easy, and really the most difficult part was actually getting the router because the local shops (MediaMarkt) don’t have many/any compatible routers.
    - MandieD 5y ago
      If somewhat recently, which model, because MediaMarkt is also my main local option (RIP, Conrad)
  - Faaak 5y ago
    Well, indeed you're right on this point but on the second hand flashing a router is just selecting the firmware and clicking on "Flash". I never had a bricked router. I didn't flash a lot, but at least 6 or so. Maybe I was lucky
- karmakaze 5y ago
  Tomato, is that still going strong? I remember using it for its MLPPP capability. The QoS never worked that well with it as I recall.
howdydoo 5y ago
Nothing in life has a 100% success rate. But I think the fact that most people recommend OpenWrt, shows that most people don't have these crazy problems. Buy well-supported hardware, follow the directions carefully, and you'll be just fine.
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  Certainly. But I had a very difficult time. I purchased an ASUS router recommended by the OpenWRT website, followed directions but struggled for hours, and eventually bricked it only to find out later via searching forum posts that some routers with that model number are not supported if they were made in a specific year (of course, this was discovered via trial and error by other frustrated forum members, no one had updated the original recommendations to reflect this, and installing the recommended firmware destroyed the router irreversibly).
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Really irreversible, or could it be reflashed via so called 'JTAG-cable', and serial terminal, tftp, or maybe even https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom (but then with other cables and plugs, because most likely directly writing into the chip without any intermediaries)?
  - opan 5y ago
    I would personally avoid ASUS as they tend to use Broadcom NICs, which never have good free software support. If one was recommended, maybe it was an exception, but I'd still try to avoid ASUS. If you want a cheap rec that's easy to get OpenWrt on, get a Netgear R6220 off eBay. I've gotten 3 of them for $20 each or so.
  - 042 5y ago
    This was exactly what happened to me. Certain tp-link routers made specifically for Italy got bricked if you installed OpenWRT on them.
fartcannon 5y ago
Forgive me if this sounds arrogant, but I think the general HN user is capable of handling the relatively simple UI based download and flash required to use OpenWRT. Likewise, using a raspberry pi is probably trivial for most developers. If not, I'm being under paid.
- garbagecoder 5y ago
  I think most people are capable. It’s whether it’s worth it. I loved learning more about Linux and networking with it, and loved having automatic cell failover, but at the end of the day, it was too unreliable. So, forgive me for how this sounds, but the general HN user probably needs a reliable as possible internet link.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Again, it's a download and a 'flash' in a GUI. Probably couldn't be simpler. As for reliability, my house has two of the same routers - one runs openwrt, the other runs the factory default (unfortunately it's not mine, so I can't just change it at will). Can you guess which is unreliable? It's the factory default. This is not to mention the security implications of having a non-open source router. Never trust a third party like that. Some even try to get you to use an app.
    - garbagecoder 5y ago
      “Works on my machine” isn’t a very constructive response. You have a lot more work than that to do if you don’t get the right hardware. It’s decent if you don’t change the defaults, I guess but then what’s the point?! Try installing almost any package and sometimes it will just lock up. An actual misconfigured/buggy router is a bigger security concern for me than a potential back door. Also, what makes you think open source software matters if the hardware is closed? Do you have a pine router or something?
      - fartcannon 5y ago
        I wish! That'd be rad. There was an article just the other day about how google is sunsetting a mesh router they built. That's what you get if you don't take the frankly small amount of time to wrench control of your hardware from its parent companies. You're worried about security? Bad news, if you're not doing your own updates, your security can and will be sunset. But I get it, you don't wanna. Not much more to be said than that I suppose. ... Does pine make a router?
Rebelgecko 5y ago
FWIW I've had the opposite experience. The stock firmware on my TP-Link router was awful. It was a pain to update and I frequently had to reboot the thing because it decided to stop working. Installing OpenWRT took maybe 15 minutes and an hour or so of fiddling and setting up my port forwarding and static IPs. Now my router's uptime is measured in months (and that's only because of power outages)
jcpham2 5y ago
OpenWRT is the only thing I would recommend - all the consumer routers have turned to trash.
- cpach 5y ago
  Eero is an exception there. Their quality is terrific.
globular-toast 5y ago
I think you just need to go in with an understanding of what a router and related things (access point, switch, modem etc.) actually are. Too many people think router is just "that thing that gives me internet via wifi". If you are one of those, you might not have a good time with OpenWRT or Pfsense etc.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
If you manage to brick your router by messing with OpenWRT, you're maybe better of with the factory default 'for dummies' interface. Most cheap plastics have something like 'recovery' built in. It's like rescue 'BIOS' becoming active after a while, or via some reset button push code, where it is accessible on a default IP, and reflashable via browser. This seems to be the case since at about 10 years? What sometimes is lacking, is the documentation about the specifics of factory defaults for different devices and revisions thereof. I never felt the 'instability', at least not when I limited myself to the basics a thing like that should do, and not trying to turn it into a server for all sorts of things. (Edit: Though you can also do that, if you know what you are doing. That's the advantage of things like these!) Depending on which hardware/SOC you have, DD-Wrt may be a better option.
cyanydeez 5y ago
took about q5 minutes to setup. perhaps you chose the wrong router.
unmole 5y ago
> IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. Does not match my experience at all. My router would regularly go offline with the stock firmware which never happened after I flashed OpenWRT.
dredmorbius 5y ago
The Turris Omnia is preconfigured with OpenWRT, specifically tuned to the hardware, and auto-updates. It's cloud-free, spyware-free, adware-free. The default configuration works with the same basic configuration any consumer-grade system would require. Extensive configuration capability is offered through either of two graphical front-ends, the basic Turris, the advanced Luci, or for those who prefer talking in words rather than gestures, a highly capable Linux system residing underneath.

Faaak 5y ago

I don't really see what you're talking about. I've flashed all of my routers and _never_ had a problem. Maybe the thing that took me the most time was to decide which version to use or whether I should use openwrt vs tomato vs other competitors

ramphastidae 5y ago
Your post history says you use Dvorak and Vim, and were tinkering with your school’s network at 15, so I think my point stands :)
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Everyone should strive to this level of competence, and I like that some of the posts here (like advice for installing OpenWRT) kind of force it Breaking stuff and then fixing it is the fast track for learning If you're not a smart computer guy then maybe this isnt the forum for you
  - D13Fd 5y ago
    Being efficient is part of being smart. Sadly the older you are the less time you have to spend time trying to fix things that you don't care about, and the less the knowledge you gain is worth to you (simply because you have less career- and life-span left to use it). Yes, I've flashed routers in the past, including the Linksys WRT54G, and in some cases I've even built a dedicated PC to run as a router, back when that was a bit more in vogue. But is it worth the time to do it yet again? Probably not. I'd rather get an Apple-like router that works perfectly out of the box, with sensible defaults and little configuration necessary, and which is regularly auto-updated with security fixes. That way I can spend my time on new things.
- yladiz 5y ago
  I would second the parent, I installed and use OpenWRT on my router without much issue. Flashing and configuring was quite easy, and really the most difficult part was actually getting the router because the local shops (MediaMarkt) don’t have many/any compatible routers.
  - MandieD 5y ago
    If somewhat recently, which model, because MediaMarkt is also my main local option (RIP, Conrad)
- Faaak 5y ago
  Well, indeed you're right on this point but on the second hand flashing a router is just selecting the firmware and clicking on "Flash". I never had a bricked router. I didn't flash a lot, but at least 6 or so. Maybe I was lucky
karmakaze 5y ago
Tomato, is that still going strong? I remember using it for its MLPPP capability. The QoS never worked that well with it as I recall.

howdydoo 5y ago

Nothing in life has a 100% success rate. But I think the fact that most people recommend OpenWrt, shows that most people don't have these crazy problems. Buy well-supported hardware, follow the directions carefully, and you'll be just fine.

ramphastidae 5y ago
Certainly. But I had a very difficult time. I purchased an ASUS router recommended by the OpenWRT website, followed directions but struggled for hours, and eventually bricked it only to find out later via searching forum posts that some routers with that model number are not supported if they were made in a specific year (of course, this was discovered via trial and error by other frustrated forum members, no one had updated the original recommendations to reflect this, and installing the recommended firmware destroyed the router irreversibly).
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Really irreversible, or could it be reflashed via so called 'JTAG-cable', and serial terminal, tftp, or maybe even https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom (but then with other cables and plugs, because most likely directly writing into the chip without any intermediaries)?
- opan 5y ago
  I would personally avoid ASUS as they tend to use Broadcom NICs, which never have good free software support. If one was recommended, maybe it was an exception, but I'd still try to avoid ASUS. If you want a cheap rec that's easy to get OpenWrt on, get a Netgear R6220 off eBay. I've gotten 3 of them for $20 each or so.
- 042 5y ago
  This was exactly what happened to me. Certain tp-link routers made specifically for Italy got bricked if you installed OpenWRT on them.

fartcannon 5y ago

Forgive me if this sounds arrogant, but I think the general HN user is capable of handling the relatively simple UI based download and flash required to use OpenWRT. Likewise, using a raspberry pi is probably trivial for most developers. If not, I'm being under paid.

garbagecoder 5y ago
I think most people are capable. It’s whether it’s worth it. I loved learning more about Linux and networking with it, and loved having automatic cell failover, but at the end of the day, it was too unreliable. So, forgive me for how this sounds, but the general HN user probably needs a reliable as possible internet link.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Again, it's a download and a 'flash' in a GUI. Probably couldn't be simpler. As for reliability, my house has two of the same routers - one runs openwrt, the other runs the factory default (unfortunately it's not mine, so I can't just change it at will). Can you guess which is unreliable? It's the factory default. This is not to mention the security implications of having a non-open source router. Never trust a third party like that. Some even try to get you to use an app.
  - garbagecoder 5y ago
    “Works on my machine” isn’t a very constructive response. You have a lot more work than that to do if you don’t get the right hardware. It’s decent if you don’t change the defaults, I guess but then what’s the point?! Try installing almost any package and sometimes it will just lock up. An actual misconfigured/buggy router is a bigger security concern for me than a potential back door. Also, what makes you think open source software matters if the hardware is closed? Do you have a pine router or something?
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      I wish! That'd be rad. There was an article just the other day about how google is sunsetting a mesh router they built. That's what you get if you don't take the frankly small amount of time to wrench control of your hardware from its parent companies. You're worried about security? Bad news, if you're not doing your own updates, your security can and will be sunset. But I get it, you don't wanna. Not much more to be said than that I suppose. ... Does pine make a router?

Rebelgecko 5y ago

FWIW I've had the opposite experience. The stock firmware on my TP-Link router was awful. It was a pain to update and I frequently had to reboot the thing because it decided to stop working. Installing OpenWRT took maybe 15 minutes and an hour or so of fiddling and setting up my port forwarding and static IPs. Now my router's uptime is measured in months (and that's only because of power outages)

jcpham2 5y ago

OpenWRT is the only thing I would recommend - all the consumer routers have turned to trash.

cpach 5y ago
Eero is an exception there. Their quality is terrific.

globular-toast 5y ago

I think you just need to go in with an understanding of what a router and related things (access point, switch, modem etc.) actually are. Too many people think router is just "that thing that gives me internet via wifi". If you are one of those, you might not have a good time with OpenWRT or Pfsense etc.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

If you manage to brick your router by messing with OpenWRT, you're maybe better of with the factory default 'for dummies' interface. Most cheap plastics have something like 'recovery' built in. It's like rescue 'BIOS' becoming active after a while, or via some reset button push code, where it is accessible on a default IP, and reflashable via browser. This seems to be the case since at about 10 years? What sometimes is lacking, is the documentation about the specifics of factory defaults for different devices and revisions thereof. I never felt the 'instability', at least not when I limited myself to the basics a thing like that should do, and not trying to turn it into a server for all sorts of things. (Edit: Though you can also do that, if you know what you are doing. That's the advantage of things like these!) Depending on which hardware/SOC you have, DD-Wrt may be a better option.

cyanydeez 5y ago

took about q5 minutes to setup. perhaps you chose the wrong router.

unmole 5y ago

> IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. Does not match my experience at all. My router would regularly go offline with the stock firmware which never happened after I flashed OpenWRT.

dredmorbius 5y ago

The Turris Omnia is preconfigured with OpenWRT, specifically tuned to the hardware, and auto-updates. It's cloud-free, spyware-free, adware-free. The default configuration works with the same basic configuration any consumer-grade system would require. Extensive configuration capability is offered through either of two graphical front-ends, the basic Turris, the advanced Luci, or for those who prefer talking in words rather than gestures, a highly capable Linux system residing underneath.