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> Yes, undeniably so, but the same applies to non-Asian groups. You’re the one who wanted to focus on Asians: > > As usual in the American racial discourse,

> Yes, undeniably so, but the same applies to non-Asian groups. You’re the one who wanted to focus on Asians: > > As usual in the American racial discourse, this argument entirely ignores the huge gaping hole in its side that is the Asian community. But now that you aren’t managing to prove your point you (perhaps) want to broaden the topic again. Or? > Nigerian Americans have the highest # of PhDs per 1000 people. Albanian Americans (white) are among the poorest Americans, while Russians are among the richest ones. Ok? Racism is huge topic and can manifest itself in a lot of different ways. One type of racism would be to be mean to an African-looking person, and ~~an African~~ a Nigerian could be confused with an African-American. But that’s not really the kind of racism that is relevant here. Again, not sure what point you’re trying to make with this specific paragraph. > As usual, there is a lot more diversity within the big racially defined groups than among them. What people like you (or people who make the same points as you do) fail to realize is that disparity of outcomes among non-whites does not disprove racism, or prove that group X just need to study/work harder. One could theorize that the descendants of chattel slavery will have (for example) less family wealth than whites who are descendants of property owners and indentured servants. For example. And that’s a result of racist policies like slavery and lack of equal legal rights (of course blacks have less wealth to this day since blacks gaining equal legal rights did not even the playing field with regards to wealth…). Take your point about Nigerians for example. An African-American descendant of slaves and a Nigerian expat PhD-holder who works and lives in America will have about zero common background. Zero! The common experience they will have while living in America is to be treated like blacks. But their family background and upbringing will be as different as that of another Nigerian and a white American. So does that mean that racism isn’t really a thing? Not really. The African-American will still have been held back by racism.

inglor_cz 5y ago
"One could theorize that the descendants of chattel slavery will have (for example) less family wealth than whites who are descendants of property owners and indentured servants. " People have even less family wealth in less stable places, plagued by war, genocide, forced expropriation, violent regime changes, state bankruptcies etc. For example, both Germany and Poland were big heaps of rubble in 1945. Nothing to inherit there but destroyed, burnt-out cities. The 20th century in general was pretty awful outside North America. If bad history was such a universal determinant of future failure or success, the world would be one giant hopeless poverty-stricken hellhole.
- wobblybubble 5y ago
  > People have even less family wealth in less stable places But we’re comparing whites and blacks in America, so the old “but people are starving in Africa” doesn’t apply here. So why is there a disparity of family wealth between whites and blacks in America? Any alternative theories? Because “but the bombing of Dresden…!!!” does not explain it.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    It sort-of does, because America is a country based on immigration and many contemporary Americans, not just white ones, have relatively recent background in poorer, less stable, more violent countries. A lot of people who are now living comfortably are kids or grandkids of parents who came with nothing in their pockets. As for your question, I do not have any theory. A viable theory would have to explain the variation of the black-white gap across the US. Looking for data, I found a graph mapping the differences of average black and white income (not wealth) across U.S. states: https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed/publications/bridges/2020/volume3/map1_1200px.jpg https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed... If racism was the only root explanation, Pennsylvania would be more racist than Georgia and Wisconsin more racist than South Carolina. That does not seem plausible to me.

inglor_cz 5y ago

"One could theorize that the descendants of chattel slavery will have (for example) less family wealth than whites who are descendants of property owners and indentured servants. " People have even less family wealth in less stable places, plagued by war, genocide, forced expropriation, violent regime changes, state bankruptcies etc. For example, both Germany and Poland were big heaps of rubble in 1945. Nothing to inherit there but destroyed, burnt-out cities. The 20th century in general was pretty awful outside North America. If bad history was such a universal determinant of future failure or success, the world would be one giant hopeless poverty-stricken hellhole.

wobblybubble 5y ago
> People have even less family wealth in less stable places But we’re comparing whites and blacks in America, so the old “but people are starving in Africa” doesn’t apply here. So why is there a disparity of family wealth between whites and blacks in America? Any alternative theories? Because “but the bombing of Dresden…!!!” does not explain it.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  It sort-of does, because America is a country based on immigration and many contemporary Americans, not just white ones, have relatively recent background in poorer, less stable, more violent countries. A lot of people who are now living comfortably are kids or grandkids of parents who came with nothing in their pockets. As for your question, I do not have any theory. A viable theory would have to explain the variation of the black-white gap across the US. Looking for data, I found a graph mapping the differences of average black and white income (not wealth) across U.S. states: https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed/publications/bridges/2020/volume3/map1_1200px.jpg https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed... If racism was the only root explanation, Pennsylvania would be more racist than Georgia and Wisconsin more racist than South Carolina. That does not seem plausible to me.