3 ms·

Not to stray too far off-topic, but is anyone aware of any scientific studies on the exaggerated interest in Japan and Japanese culture among "nerds" and other

Not to stray too far off-topic, but is anyone aware of any scientific studies on the exaggerated interest in Japan and Japanese culture among "nerds" and other social outcasts? By that I don't mean Cosplayers or Manga fans, but rather the "tech" version of nerddom - people who don't follow Manga, Anime, or Idols, but are fascinated with anything if it's related to Japan. I guess the most obvious reasons are the myth that "nerds" can find sex partners in Japan more easily than in their own culture, and the darker fascination of Western Neo-Nazis (like Breivik) with Japan's alleged racial purity and chauvinistic nationalism. Especially because a mass-murderer has openly stated his deed was "inspired" by Japanese culture, I wonder if the connection has ever been analysed scientifically.

JKCalhoun 5y ago
> I guess the most obvious reasons are the myth that "nerds" can find sex partners in Japan more easily than in their own culture I believe that is part of it, honestly. But I wouldn't present it exactly that way. I think instead that there are many American males that feel threatened by the assertive, independent American woman. Perhaps beginning with "women's lib" in the 1970's? Asian culture appears to paint a picture of a submissive female role that is non-threatening, in fact deferential to the male. Even in terms of appearances the stereotypical Asian female has long hair "befitting a woman" and wears traditional feminine clothing. But I think there of course is another kind of interest in Japanese culture that is not defined by sex roles, a fascination I have myself about Japan. I think it is other-worldly to this Westerner. Food is foreign but delicious. Society is structured in a way that keeps order. Strict social rules but flexibility toward foreigners who are unused to these rules (and apparently allowances for the behavior of drunks as well?). I think too many of us see modern Japan as a foil to our own failing societies as we head into an unknown future. Tokyo with public transportation and, as I said, strict social rules, has kept a mostly sane and functioning metropolis together. As we look to our own cities in the U.S. growing to Tokyo-like proportions we can hope that there is a way forward ... if we can only be more like Japan. Anyway, that is my take on it.
forgetfulness 5y ago
Diverting the discussion to the subject of the nerd identity is always on topic for Hacker News. I'd say there's several centuries worth of precedent on Western interest on Japanese art, history and culture. The US sent gunboats to force them to show the goods at one point, when they were unwilling to share them.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Spooky23 5y ago
Asian cultures are just interesting from my POV. Think about how the English fascination with Roman ruins embedded all sorts of Roman allegory and content into popular culture. Japan and China has their own stories, histories and empires dating back thousands of years, but they just aren’t a part of western culture and education. It’s a novelty for some and a passion for others because of the aspect of discovery. I know very little about Chinese history, but if you grabbed 100 of my not-Chinese peers, I probably know more than 90 of them.
- suction 5y ago
  I also find them interesting, but what interests me is why Japan, not China, Thailand, Korea, or Malaysia is the most interesting to "nerds".
  - freyir 5y ago
    Japan produced a lot of comic books and films, and nerds like comic books and films? Interest ebbs and flows. Korea is perhaps eclipsing Japan in general interest these days. But their cultural export is pop music and boy bands, and their main Western demographic seems to be teenage girls.
  - Baeocystin 5y ago
    Japan was occupied and rebuilt by the United States immediately following the war. There was tremendous cultural and technological exchange during this time, and after occupation ended, Japanese cultural and technical exports rapidly achieved parity with the West in a way that the other countries you listed did not. If you were a tech-focused kid in the 80's, it was Japan that had the fascinating imports. Japanese cars went from being a cultural laughingstock to economic powerhouse in less than a decade. Japan was simply present in the US to a degree that no other Asian country came close to. (South Korea is the next closest competitor in terms of having the West's attention, and it's not a coincidence that it is also the other major east Asian country to have gone through an occupation and rebuilding phase, with the concomitant cultural exchange between the two.) Taiwan is the odd one out (IMO) in that it also has a strong history of ties with the US and cultural/technological exchange, but it doesn't seem to have captured attention in the same way as the other two. I don't know why.
saltcured 5y ago
If you can step away from this exotic/erotic axis and consider your question again, I would suggest also thinking about other archetypes and stereotypes visible in Japanese history and pop art accessible to westerners. Many of these seem to have obvious appeal to "nerds" and social outcasts. Among many things represented there are: intense stoicism, quiet suffering, sacrifice, and discipline; intense devotion and high craft; and individuals trying to contain and balance their personal issues within a high pressure society expecting obedience and conformity. In many exported stories, there is also a strong hint that in spite of all this, Japanese culture somehow allows for very eccentric (geeky?) characters to carve out a pocket world where their obsessions become almost respected in the same way as traditional disciplines. A sort of meta-discipline focused on the process of refinement itself...
quadrifoliate 5y ago
I think such a study would not reveal anything but rather mundane truths. > By that I don't mean Cosplayers or Manga fans, but rather the "tech" version of nerddom - people who don't follow Manga, Anime, or Idols, but are fascinated with anything if it's related to Japan. For some reason, you are putting up a strong separation here that I am not sure actually exists in real life. People don't compartmentalize their hobbies and remaining interests into two separate buckets that have nothing to do with each other. I find it reasonable both that: - People who watch anime or read manga all day are more likely to notice, upvote, and share a story about Japan just due to the proximity of language. - "Nerds" as you put it are more likely to be into anime or manga in the first place. Given these two, it follows that nerds are more likely to share general stories about Japan without any of the much darker reasons you seem to posit. Similarly, I would also find it reasonable that someone listening to and practicing Euro-centric music all day is more likely to share stories that have a mainly Euro-centric context.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

> I guess the most obvious reasons are the myth that "nerds" can find sex partners in Japan more easily than in their own culture I believe that is part of it, honestly. But I wouldn't present it exactly that way. I think instead that there are many American males that feel threatened by the assertive, independent American woman. Perhaps beginning with "women's lib" in the 1970's? Asian culture appears to paint a picture of a submissive female role that is non-threatening, in fact deferential to the male. Even in terms of appearances the stereotypical Asian female has long hair "befitting a woman" and wears traditional feminine clothing. But I think there of course is another kind of interest in Japanese culture that is not defined by sex roles, a fascination I have myself about Japan. I think it is other-worldly to this Westerner. Food is foreign but delicious. Society is structured in a way that keeps order. Strict social rules but flexibility toward foreigners who are unused to these rules (and apparently allowances for the behavior of drunks as well?). I think too many of us see modern Japan as a foil to our own failing societies as we head into an unknown future. Tokyo with public transportation and, as I said, strict social rules, has kept a mostly sane and functioning metropolis together. As we look to our own cities in the U.S. growing to Tokyo-like proportions we can hope that there is a way forward ... if we can only be more like Japan. Anyway, that is my take on it.

forgetfulness 5y ago

Diverting the discussion to the subject of the nerd identity is always on topic for Hacker News. I'd say there's several centuries worth of precedent on Western interest on Japanese art, history and culture. The US sent gunboats to force them to show the goods at one point, when they were unwilling to share them.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Spooky23 5y ago

Asian cultures are just interesting from my POV. Think about how the English fascination with Roman ruins embedded all sorts of Roman allegory and content into popular culture. Japan and China has their own stories, histories and empires dating back thousands of years, but they just aren’t a part of western culture and education. It’s a novelty for some and a passion for others because of the aspect of discovery. I know very little about Chinese history, but if you grabbed 100 of my not-Chinese peers, I probably know more than 90 of them.

suction 5y ago
I also find them interesting, but what interests me is why Japan, not China, Thailand, Korea, or Malaysia is the most interesting to "nerds".
- freyir 5y ago
  Japan produced a lot of comic books and films, and nerds like comic books and films? Interest ebbs and flows. Korea is perhaps eclipsing Japan in general interest these days. But their cultural export is pop music and boy bands, and their main Western demographic seems to be teenage girls.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  Japan was occupied and rebuilt by the United States immediately following the war. There was tremendous cultural and technological exchange during this time, and after occupation ended, Japanese cultural and technical exports rapidly achieved parity with the West in a way that the other countries you listed did not. If you were a tech-focused kid in the 80's, it was Japan that had the fascinating imports. Japanese cars went from being a cultural laughingstock to economic powerhouse in less than a decade. Japan was simply present in the US to a degree that no other Asian country came close to. (South Korea is the next closest competitor in terms of having the West's attention, and it's not a coincidence that it is also the other major east Asian country to have gone through an occupation and rebuilding phase, with the concomitant cultural exchange between the two.) Taiwan is the odd one out (IMO) in that it also has a strong history of ties with the US and cultural/technological exchange, but it doesn't seem to have captured attention in the same way as the other two. I don't know why.

saltcured 5y ago

If you can step away from this exotic/erotic axis and consider your question again, I would suggest also thinking about other archetypes and stereotypes visible in Japanese history and pop art accessible to westerners. Many of these seem to have obvious appeal to "nerds" and social outcasts. Among many things represented there are: intense stoicism, quiet suffering, sacrifice, and discipline; intense devotion and high craft; and individuals trying to contain and balance their personal issues within a high pressure society expecting obedience and conformity. In many exported stories, there is also a strong hint that in spite of all this, Japanese culture somehow allows for very eccentric (geeky?) characters to carve out a pocket world where their obsessions become almost respected in the same way as traditional disciplines. A sort of meta-discipline focused on the process of refinement itself...

quadrifoliate 5y ago

I think such a study would not reveal anything but rather mundane truths. > By that I don't mean Cosplayers or Manga fans, but rather the "tech" version of nerddom - people who don't follow Manga, Anime, or Idols, but are fascinated with anything if it's related to Japan. For some reason, you are putting up a strong separation here that I am not sure actually exists in real life. People don't compartmentalize their hobbies and remaining interests into two separate buckets that have nothing to do with each other. I find it reasonable both that: - People who watch anime or read manga all day are more likely to notice, upvote, and share a story about Japan just due to the proximity of language. - "Nerds" as you put it are more likely to be into anime or manga in the first place. Given these two, it follows that nerds are more likely to share general stories about Japan without any of the much darker reasons you seem to posit. Similarly, I would also find it reasonable that someone listening to and practicing Euro-centric music all day is more likely to share stories that have a mainly Euro-centric context.