5 ms·

It is sad that the C3 is going more and more political, and that actual technical content is apparently being phased out. There are very few technical "hacking

It is sad that the C3 is going more and more political, and that actual technical content is apparently being phased out. There are very few technical "hacking" conferences anymore (i.e. not tied to a particular topic, e.g. Linux)

bijant 5y ago
Inviting a member of parliament just to talk about being a member of parliament is indeed a bit weird. The CCC has always been a political club but airing a 60 minute ad for an individual politician is indeed a new quality that will certainly be discussed inside the club afterwards. https://pretalx.c3voc.de/rc3-2021/talk/358/ https://pretalx.c3voc.de/rc3-2021/talk/358/
- gefhfff 5y ago
  > Inviting a member of parliament just to talk about being a member of parliament Reading from your linked summary, I get the impression it's not just about being a member of the parliament
  - bijant 5y ago
    I have read it. It's filled with the usual politicians keyword stuffing but it's literally about being a member of parliament. If you want to be cynical you can call it an unpaid ad placement. The politician will use it afterwards to tout her expertise in "digital matters" because she held a speech at a renowned hackers conference and it will help her advancement in her factions caucus etc. I just don't see what benefit it has for attendees.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      To be fair, she's been a political activist partially focused on internet/tech for quite a while (her husband was part of Wikileaks, then founded OpenLeaks). I don't know whether she's a member, but she's very socially progressive and economically very far left, so her values are strongly aligned with the CCC. I don't think it's just a gift for her to speak at a CCC event, it's essentially one of them speaking about the things they like to hear.
      - rurban 5y ago
        She is also very likely a CIA mole in the green party. So she's a person of interest
    - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
      I hope you are watching the streams not to get into any details in particular. lol
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- hannob 5y ago
  This is a person who was close to the community long before she became a politician. And she gave a similar talk 2 years ago: https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-50-als-netzaktivistin-im-bundestag-insider-einblicke-und-mitmachmglichkeiten https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-50-als-netzaktivistin-im-bundest...
lhoff 5y ago
This year is different. There are no official tracks and therefore no official call for paper. Thats why only the local CCC Clubs (erfas) offer talks. A lot of these talks are held by people that are closely related to the CCC. I expect that once the congress is taking place offline again, there will be a official track with selected talks. Also please note that the ccc was founded in the TAZ headquarter on the table that previously belonged to the Komune 1. CCC was political from day one. I maybe wasn't so present in the earlier days but as "the internet" got more intertwined with politics the CCC followed.
- detaro 5y ago
  > here are no official tracks and therefore no official call for paper. Thats why only the local CCC Clubs (erfas) offer talks. There was a CfP process and speakers could pick one or more channels they'd like their content to be with (channels are not just individual Erfas too, many streams are run by many different groups together), and the channels coordinated who picks up what talk. At least the channel where I have insight in the process, the majority of talks is by people who aren't "members". So while there are no "main stages", the other channels are open to all (just as many usually are at congress). EDIT: CfP announcement for reference https://events.ccc.de/2021/11/10/rc3-2021-meta-cfp/ https://events.ccc.de/2021/11/10/rc3-2021-meta-cfp/
- fest 5y ago
  To save somebody else a Google search: taz is a left-leaning daily newspaper in Germany, and kommune 1 was a student community against conservative thought.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  That's true, if you have time, read the book "The Cuckoo's Egg" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) to see how the ties between CCC and Left was always present. I have no problem about it being left biased. That's was always like that. What makes me sad is how left became "lifestyle left" and consequently the "lifestyle left" became too present in the CCC congress.
albertzeyer 5y ago
This point is being made each year again and again, that it is getting more and more political. I also had that impression myself. However, I was surprised to see some actual statistics that it was already political right from the beginning (sorry, no ref, I barely remember). And there are always also a lot of technical talks. It is not really phased out. Maybe just some of the political talks get more attention. Or the attention to political content increases. Or maybe my own attention to political topics, and I just ignored that earlier. But when you look for technical content (at least on a regular C3), there is plenty.
- luckylion 5y ago
  I believe the argument isn't that there was zero politics before, but that it was creative/technical, and oh, we also have some political talks. And now it's politics, and oh, yeah, we still have a few technical talks.
  - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
    the problem is that you are pretending to care now. it was always the fact especially if you take in regards the founders like Wau holland. I don't even know what you really expect from the ccc since it's very first datenkrake it was left leaning. Maybe the Club isn't something for you.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      > the problem is that you are pretending to care now. No need to be hostile. I haven't attacked you or anyone else. I never said they didn't have political opinions, it just didn't seem to be politics first. That has changed over the last decade or so, I'm guessing it's a generational shift. I'm fine with that and I'm not asking anyone to change anything. Calm down.
      - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        There is always this huge perception difference of people that only attend congresses online or per streaming. If you would have been on location for any of the congresses you know how the overall vibe would be rather political than not.

bijant 5y ago

Inviting a member of parliament just to talk about being a member of parliament is indeed a bit weird. The CCC has always been a political club but airing a 60 minute ad for an individual politician is indeed a new quality that will certainly be discussed inside the club afterwards. https://pretalx.c3voc.de/rc3-2021/talk/358/ https://pretalx.c3voc.de/rc3-2021/talk/358/

gefhfff 5y ago
> Inviting a member of parliament just to talk about being a member of parliament Reading from your linked summary, I get the impression it's not just about being a member of the parliament
- bijant 5y ago
  I have read it. It's filled with the usual politicians keyword stuffing but it's literally about being a member of parliament. If you want to be cynical you can call it an unpaid ad placement. The politician will use it afterwards to tout her expertise in "digital matters" because she held a speech at a renowned hackers conference and it will help her advancement in her factions caucus etc. I just don't see what benefit it has for attendees.
  - luckylion 5y ago
    To be fair, she's been a political activist partially focused on internet/tech for quite a while (her husband was part of Wikileaks, then founded OpenLeaks). I don't know whether she's a member, but she's very socially progressive and economically very far left, so her values are strongly aligned with the CCC. I don't think it's just a gift for her to speak at a CCC event, it's essentially one of them speaking about the things they like to hear.
    - rurban 5y ago
      She is also very likely a CIA mole in the green party. So she's a person of interest
  - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
    I hope you are watching the streams not to get into any details in particular. lol
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hannob 5y ago
This is a person who was close to the community long before she became a politician. And she gave a similar talk 2 years ago: https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-50-als-netzaktivistin-im-bundestag-insider-einblicke-und-mitmachmglichkeiten https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-50-als-netzaktivistin-im-bundest...

lhoff 5y ago

This year is different. There are no official tracks and therefore no official call for paper. Thats why only the local CCC Clubs (erfas) offer talks. A lot of these talks are held by people that are closely related to the CCC. I expect that once the congress is taking place offline again, there will be a official track with selected talks. Also please note that the ccc was founded in the TAZ headquarter on the table that previously belonged to the Komune 1. CCC was political from day one. I maybe wasn't so present in the earlier days but as "the internet" got more intertwined with politics the CCC followed.

detaro 5y ago
> here are no official tracks and therefore no official call for paper. Thats why only the local CCC Clubs (erfas) offer talks. There was a CfP process and speakers could pick one or more channels they'd like their content to be with (channels are not just individual Erfas too, many streams are run by many different groups together), and the channels coordinated who picks up what talk. At least the channel where I have insight in the process, the majority of talks is by people who aren't "members". So while there are no "main stages", the other channels are open to all (just as many usually are at congress). EDIT: CfP announcement for reference https://events.ccc.de/2021/11/10/rc3-2021-meta-cfp/ https://events.ccc.de/2021/11/10/rc3-2021-meta-cfp/
fest 5y ago
To save somebody else a Google search: taz is a left-leaning daily newspaper in Germany, and kommune 1 was a student community against conservative thought.
pelasaco 5y ago
That's true, if you have time, read the book "The Cuckoo's Egg" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book) to see how the ties between CCC and Left was always present. I have no problem about it being left biased. That's was always like that. What makes me sad is how left became "lifestyle left" and consequently the "lifestyle left" became too present in the CCC congress.

albertzeyer 5y ago

This point is being made each year again and again, that it is getting more and more political. I also had that impression myself. However, I was surprised to see some actual statistics that it was already political right from the beginning (sorry, no ref, I barely remember). And there are always also a lot of technical talks. It is not really phased out. Maybe just some of the political talks get more attention. Or the attention to political content increases. Or maybe my own attention to political topics, and I just ignored that earlier. But when you look for technical content (at least on a regular C3), there is plenty.

luckylion 5y ago
I believe the argument isn't that there was zero politics before, but that it was creative/technical, and oh, we also have some political talks. And now it's politics, and oh, yeah, we still have a few technical talks.
- YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
  the problem is that you are pretending to care now. it was always the fact especially if you take in regards the founders like Wau holland. I don't even know what you really expect from the ccc since it's very first datenkrake it was left leaning. Maybe the Club isn't something for you.
  - luckylion 5y ago
    > the problem is that you are pretending to care now. No need to be hostile. I haven't attacked you or anyone else. I never said they didn't have political opinions, it just didn't seem to be politics first. That has changed over the last decade or so, I'm guessing it's a generational shift. I'm fine with that and I'm not asking anyone to change anything. Calm down.
    - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
      There is always this huge perception difference of people that only attend congresses online or per streaming. If you would have been on location for any of the congresses you know how the overall vibe would be rather political than not.