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> "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. [...] With this I have become lighter, freer, h

> "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. [...] With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now. I'd like to give a heads up that this can and may come crashing down[1]. The 'Dark Night of the Soul' is a very real phenomena, and it can happen out of nowhere -- just a normal meditation session. I'd suggest giving a search to 'mindfulness' and 'mental distress' or some such, if you continue on with this. It is really helpful to find a framework -- like Buddhism or Raja Yoga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with...) -- before diving too deep, to give you something to fall back on when it happens, otherwise it can result in quite unpleasant, hard to overcome and understand situations. Edit to add: The specific framework doesn't matter as much as having one at all (Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Yoga/etc.). [1] I just found this article but it seems a decent overview to me: https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul/ https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul...

bckr 5y ago
This is really important. GP's experience is beautiful. Yet, I recently read an article[] describing how there's very little help available to people who perhaps meditate too much and end up in spiritual crisis; meditation is sold as this panacea in our western world. > hackingthelema Love the user name. Would also love if you read my top-level comment on this thread. [] https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-powerful-mental-tool-and-for-some-it-goes-terribly-wrong https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-power...
orasis 5y ago
Thanks for raising this issue. I had to back from meditation entirely due to disassociation and energetic unwellness. Heavy physical exercise helped get me back in the body.
skinney6 5y ago
Great point. I have forgotten about this. There were at least 2, one heavy, one less so, periods early on of pretty profound depression. The first lasted maybe 2 or 3 days. It was a dark hole of just a profound sense of loss. I was taken back at first and questioned what I was getting into and stopped meditating for a few days but I got through it. I wish I could edit my comment to add this warning. Thank you for bringing this up.
mtalantikite 5y ago
Yeah, it's important to point out the difficulties that can arise. Though I'd say that the framework could also cause problems if your experience falls outside of it. I had an experience along these lines when I was 22 and meditating daily, which ended up turning into anxiety and somewhat frequent panic attacks. I ended up giving up my daily practice for about 10 years because of it. My frame of reference was the very common Theravada practices you encounter in the west, but my experiences didn't make sense to me until I began reading Mahayana teachings and found my way to Vajrayana practice. So I'd say the framework is important, but to be flexible with it as you encounter things that aren't maybe a part of the core teaching. In my case it was the teachings on emptiness that opened things, which is something the Theravada doesn't emphasize (although it's there).
- hackingthelema 5y ago
  Great advice! I think I may have been a little too flippant in saying 'use whatever framework' because perspective is incredibly important. I'd say it's a continual process and engagement; if your philosophy or religion or sect doesn't answer it, and you don't feel good about it, it's okay to expand your horizons. I think what I wanted to emphasise is having nothing at all can leave you in a bad position. Hitting these dreary spiritual states without any philosophic or religious framework that can provide perspective is like being lost out in the sea without even a life preserver, much less a boat.
  - mtalantikite 5y ago
    Yes, absolutely! I'm constantly frustrated by the trend of selling meditation as some sort of productivity hack. It's at best misguided and at worst dangerous.

bckr 5y ago

This is really important. GP's experience is beautiful. Yet, I recently read an article[] describing how there's very little help available to people who perhaps meditate too much and end up in spiritual crisis; meditation is sold as this panacea in our western world. > hackingthelema Love the user name. Would also love if you read my top-level comment on this thread. [] https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-powerful-mental-tool-and-for-some-it-goes-terribly-wrong https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-power...

orasis 5y ago

Thanks for raising this issue. I had to back from meditation entirely due to disassociation and energetic unwellness. Heavy physical exercise helped get me back in the body.

skinney6 5y ago

Great point. I have forgotten about this. There were at least 2, one heavy, one less so, periods early on of pretty profound depression. The first lasted maybe 2 or 3 days. It was a dark hole of just a profound sense of loss. I was taken back at first and questioned what I was getting into and stopped meditating for a few days but I got through it. I wish I could edit my comment to add this warning. Thank you for bringing this up.

mtalantikite 5y ago

Yeah, it's important to point out the difficulties that can arise. Though I'd say that the framework could also cause problems if your experience falls outside of it. I had an experience along these lines when I was 22 and meditating daily, which ended up turning into anxiety and somewhat frequent panic attacks. I ended up giving up my daily practice for about 10 years because of it. My frame of reference was the very common Theravada practices you encounter in the west, but my experiences didn't make sense to me until I began reading Mahayana teachings and found my way to Vajrayana practice. So I'd say the framework is important, but to be flexible with it as you encounter things that aren't maybe a part of the core teaching. In my case it was the teachings on emptiness that opened things, which is something the Theravada doesn't emphasize (although it's there).

hackingthelema 5y ago
Great advice! I think I may have been a little too flippant in saying 'use whatever framework' because perspective is incredibly important. I'd say it's a continual process and engagement; if your philosophy or religion or sect doesn't answer it, and you don't feel good about it, it's okay to expand your horizons. I think what I wanted to emphasise is having nothing at all can leave you in a bad position. Hitting these dreary spiritual states without any philosophic or religious framework that can provide perspective is like being lost out in the sea without even a life preserver, much less a boat.
- mtalantikite 5y ago
  Yes, absolutely! I'm constantly frustrated by the trend of selling meditation as some sort of productivity hack. It's at best misguided and at worst dangerous.