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I'm always confused when I see these sorts of comments. You're so concerned with ethics, while having no qualms about lying and stealing? Ethics are optional w

I'm always confused when I see these sorts of comments. You're so concerned with ethics, while having no qualms about lying and stealing? Ethics are optional when personal benefit is involved?

jjj123 5y ago
Some people don’t think lying to and stealing from bad people is unethical. It sounds like you disagree, that’s probably the core of your confusion.
- anthonygd 5y ago
  It seems like such as clear cut example of how "bad people" think though. They always considered themselves justified in harming others. Variations of "the golden rule" are common around the world. If you actively decide to treat others in a way that you don't want to be treated, then you've failed the most universal rule of being a decent person. I fully understand thoughtless knee jerk behavior that is unethical, but taking your time and calming coming up with the idea that you are special and it's ok to harm others... it's just a bit strong on the cognitive dissonance.
  - jjj123 5y ago
    I think the missing piece is the harm being done to others constantly by bad actors (not just people, also institutions, should have clarified that in my first comment). By doing harm to those bad actors, you’ve potentially mitigated harm to others. Here’s an extreme example, just to take this to its logical conclusion: you’re in nazi Germany, you decide to join the Nazi party and sabotage it in many small ways, generally just gumming up the works. You lie and steal from the party to do it. Is that an unethical thing to do? I’m not saying that joining a bad company and committing time theft is anywhere near as clear-cut, I’m just curious if you think it’s ever okay to break the golden rule.
  - mantas 5y ago
    Consider that vast majority of people are eating meat. They harm (or somebody else harms for them) animals literally every day. Just like a lot of other living beings on the planet. Maybe cognitive dissonance is the norm? Or harming someone for your own survival is not automatically a bad thing?
mantas 5y ago
I don't see either lying or stealing as ethic subjects. They're just derivatives from other ethic points. Kid accidentally saw his Christmas too early and started asking about it. I see it much more ethical to work my way out by lying than the alternatives. I grew up in ex-USSR. Stealing form occupant Soviet government was the norm and even cheered. Because why not? Evil regime with corrupt elite deserves such treatment. Obviously it did bit us back since some people still had that attitude and kept stealing from our own free state. Some people may say that now some people sabotage current regime by stealing so that must be OK. Yes, that may be OK in those people mind. But regime can fight back (just like Soviet regime had full rights to fight back). And I support the regime that I think is fair. Obviously different people have different life experiences and that brings us to conflicts when different people support different regimes. And all sides think their side is ethical while the other is evil. But such is the cost in the diverse world.

I'm always confused when I see these sorts of comments. You're so concerned with ethics, while having no qualms about lying and stealing? Ethics are optional when personal benefit is involved?

jjj123 5y ago

Some people don’t think lying to and stealing from bad people is unethical. It sounds like you disagree, that’s probably the core of your confusion.

anthonygd 5y ago
It seems like such as clear cut example of how "bad people" think though. They always considered themselves justified in harming others. Variations of "the golden rule" are common around the world. If you actively decide to treat others in a way that you don't want to be treated, then you've failed the most universal rule of being a decent person. I fully understand thoughtless knee jerk behavior that is unethical, but taking your time and calming coming up with the idea that you are special and it's ok to harm others... it's just a bit strong on the cognitive dissonance.
- jjj123 5y ago
  I think the missing piece is the harm being done to others constantly by bad actors (not just people, also institutions, should have clarified that in my first comment). By doing harm to those bad actors, you’ve potentially mitigated harm to others. Here’s an extreme example, just to take this to its logical conclusion: you’re in nazi Germany, you decide to join the Nazi party and sabotage it in many small ways, generally just gumming up the works. You lie and steal from the party to do it. Is that an unethical thing to do? I’m not saying that joining a bad company and committing time theft is anywhere near as clear-cut, I’m just curious if you think it’s ever okay to break the golden rule.
- mantas 5y ago
  Consider that vast majority of people are eating meat. They harm (or somebody else harms for them) animals literally every day. Just like a lot of other living beings on the planet. Maybe cognitive dissonance is the norm? Or harming someone for your own survival is not automatically a bad thing?

mantas 5y ago

I don't see either lying or stealing as ethic subjects. They're just derivatives from other ethic points. Kid accidentally saw his Christmas too early and started asking about it. I see it much more ethical to work my way out by lying than the alternatives. I grew up in ex-USSR. Stealing form occupant Soviet government was the norm and even cheered. Because why not? Evil regime with corrupt elite deserves such treatment. Obviously it did bit us back since some people still had that attitude and kept stealing from our own free state. Some people may say that now some people sabotage current regime by stealing so that must be OK. Yes, that may be OK in those people mind. But regime can fight back (just like Soviet regime had full rights to fight back). And I support the regime that I think is fair. Obviously different people have different life experiences and that brings us to conflicts when different people support different regimes. And all sides think their side is ethical while the other is evil. But such is the cost in the diverse world.