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Not long ago in my new apartment after breaking up with a long time girlfriend I had an amazing experience while meditating. The odd thing was I never really me

Not long ago in my new apartment after breaking up with a long time girlfriend I had an amazing experience while meditating. The odd thing was I never really meditated back then. Something just told me to do it. I was led on an internal journey that showed me some things about my self. One, don't turn away from uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. Two, don't judge yourself. Three, the ego or this idea of myself is an illusion. It ended with my sense of self expanding out into infinity. I was not a body; I was infinite and an awesome wave of (I assume) serotonin like a big dose of E. Since then I meditate often and just try to be completely open to my entire experience. I'm an indifferent witness as often as I can. "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. It's just a different feeling in my experience. With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now. I recommend you try observing yourself as if you are a third person. What do you think about, how do those thought make you feel, what do you do in reaction to uncomfortable or "bad" feelings? I think you will start to notice that it's all just thoughts, often silly, ridiculous thoughts about a future that will not happen. Memory too are just thoughts. They are not happening now and even if they were the judgments of them are just ideas that come from social conditioning. Good and bad, right and wrong are just opinions and they change over time and from person to person. Don't take them seriously. Its like trying to hold on to vapor as if it's something solid. I have since learned from watching Rupert Spira videos on youtube that this is kinda like Atmananda Krishna Menon's Direct Path. A lot of us here are science and engineer types. Think of this as like hacking your human experience or rooting your brain. Why be satisfied with little doses of happiness and satisfaction gotten by jumping thru social or cultural hoops. Happiness, peace and contentment are within us. Go get it for yourself.

Dumblydorr 5y ago
Yes! Your experience is closest to mine. I tried Sam Harris's meditation, Joseph Goldstein's insight meditation, and came across "The Headless Path". This led to multiple moments where my consciousness expanded to fill it's container, in this case my old apartment, or a bar where I was playing music, or a shore next to a lake. It's almost like I became a 3D VR panorama of what I could sense, my center fell away and I fully absorbed the hundreds of sensations as one giant sphere. In this style, douglas Hardings Headless Path, you're attempting to realize that in some sense, "you" are not in your head. That's where we "feel" like we're centered, mostly because our eyes, ears, nose, and mouth are there. But even in reality, we can look for evidence of our head and find we don't have one. All we see is a dark void behind our nose. And behind that, we can feel what, our headache or sinuses, or the back of our head. But how are these "behind" our eyes? Aren't they just in a big cloud of sensation, too? And if we open our eyes, and let our gaze stretch and expand very widely, we might literally become absorbed into our surroundings, we'll feel like the world, not just a head. Really amazing feelings. I encourage folks try insight, mindfulness, and headless path meditation.
- skinney6 5y ago
  Rad, i'll look into this "headless path". I like trying to expand the fuzzy cloud while meditating sometimes which sounds like it's along those lines.
  - chrispine 5y ago
    While I'm not necessarily a Sam Harris fan in general, I am a huge fan of his Waking Up app. It's approachable, serene, sacred (but also no-nonsense), and really just beautiful. And useful! I can't say enough good things about it.
fergonco 5y ago
Had something like that reading Herman Hesse as teenager. I learnt that I don't need to be or feel "good", necessarily. What you describe fits a lot what I experienced then. I don't give much importance to that but I think that plays a big role on what I have become. I point at the truth (as good as I can) and people think I am judgemental but I am absolutely not because I don't care about good or bad, generally. Then I heard Jordan Peterson, I think, pointing out that all emotions are useful. They are there because they have an evolutive advantage. For example the feeling of winning makes you play more, and losing makes you step back at some point and observe what happened (you cannot take it out of your head easily). For those that want the same experience without meditating :)
namero999 5y ago
Nice, similar exp. Check Bernardo Kastrup. Good friend of Spira, computer scientist who worked at CERN, now pushing idealism which is essentially western Advaita Vedanta.
- skinney6 5y ago
  I'm going thru Bernardo Kastrup's site now. Thank you.
  - namero999 5y ago
    I think he shines best either in his books (the first, "Rationalist Spirituality" is very short and gives a good intro to his thought) or in YT interviews. The one with John Vervaeke or Curt Jaimungal are good picks. The blog is interesting but tend to also be an outlet for personal tantrums :) I've started a telegram channel to chit-chat about this topic. Anyway I guess the only relevant thing I want to share is that there are at least 2 paths to build for ourselves a consistent, integral worldview (one where meaning can be found, as meaning can only be found where there is structure): Propositional to Participative, or Participative to Propositional. That is, satisfy the brain, and open up the space to the transcendental, or go all the way into direct experience and then let the brain catch up. BK is path #1, Spira is path #2, and they have been very helpful to me.
    - skinney6 5y ago
      I've just watched a few of his vids he links to on his site, very interesting. I just read https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2016/04/conquering-fear-of-oblivion-in-15.html https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2016/04/conquering-fear-of-o... so well put. I'll read Rationalist Spirituality. Thanks again. Fascinating.
garyrob 5y ago
I recommend that you pick up a copy of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It may really resonate with you as well as deepen your insight. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0834800527/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MKGB7PGM14CWMVY443HG https://www.amazon.com/dp/0834800527/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MK...
- toomim 5y ago
  This is the philosophy that Steve Jobs followed, if I'm not mistaken.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Yes but please don't hold that against Zen Buddhism.
- skinney6 5y ago
  I'll check this out. Thanks!
- garyrob 5y ago
  Great! I think you may get a lot out of it, and I wish you well on your journey. It's without question the most-loved Zen-related book in the English language, and there are many them. It has greatly enriched many people's Buddhist practice, including mine.
- garyrob 5y ago
  ...and the experience you describe is very, very resonant with Zen Buddhism.
colordrops 5y ago
What you are describing is an experience sought after by those practicing "nondual" meditation. Tibetan buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and Taoism are the major traditions in the east that practice this, though zen could also potentially be considered nondualist. I'm currently in a class taught by Michael Taft that takes a syncretic approach to teaching nondual meditation [1]. One of the best books on the subject is "Nonduality" by David Loy [2]. Michael mentioned that some people can achieve it right away with a single meditation and others take years. Sounds like you are in the former category. Unfortunately I'm in the latter. [1] https://deconstructingyourself.com/nondual-awareness-meditation-series https://deconstructingyourself.com/nondual-awareness-meditat... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Nonduality-Buddhism-David-R-Loy/dp/1614295247 https://www.amazon.com/Nonduality-Buddhism-David-R-Loy/dp/16...
- skinney6 5y ago
  Spira talks a lot about nondual. I'm on board. I'll check out your books. Thank you!
- carterac 5y ago
  Try googling 45 Days to Awakening course, a new and improved version of the Finder’s Course. Their data shows something like 65% of people reach that state after 45 days, up to 85% after a second course for total of 90 days. It sounds way too good to be true and I didn’t believe it myself until I did it and it worked for me, and then for several friends I convinced to take it. It took me over 90 days to get there (had to keep practicing the meditation styles that worked best for me) but then stabilized. One of my friends transitioned literally on her first meditation on day one. Good luck on your journey!
  - Scarbutt 5y ago
    Typical scam website.
hackingthelema 5y ago
> "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. [...] With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now. I'd like to give a heads up that this can and may come crashing down[1]. The 'Dark Night of the Soul' is a very real phenomena, and it can happen out of nowhere -- just a normal meditation session. I'd suggest giving a search to 'mindfulness' and 'mental distress' or some such, if you continue on with this. It is really helpful to find a framework -- like Buddhism or Raja Yoga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with...) -- before diving too deep, to give you something to fall back on when it happens, otherwise it can result in quite unpleasant, hard to overcome and understand situations. Edit to add: The specific framework doesn't matter as much as having one at all (Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Yoga/etc.). [1] I just found this article but it seems a decent overview to me: https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul/ https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul...
- bckr 5y ago
  This is really important. GP's experience is beautiful. Yet, I recently read an article[] describing how there's very little help available to people who perhaps meditate too much and end up in spiritual crisis; meditation is sold as this panacea in our western world. > hackingthelema Love the user name. Would also love if you read my top-level comment on this thread. [] https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-powerful-mental-tool-and-for-some-it-goes-terribly-wrong https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-power...
- orasis 5y ago
  Thanks for raising this issue. I had to back from meditation entirely due to disassociation and energetic unwellness. Heavy physical exercise helped get me back in the body.
- skinney6 5y ago
  Great point. I have forgotten about this. There were at least 2, one heavy, one less so, periods early on of pretty profound depression. The first lasted maybe 2 or 3 days. It was a dark hole of just a profound sense of loss. I was taken back at first and questioned what I was getting into and stopped meditating for a few days but I got through it. I wish I could edit my comment to add this warning. Thank you for bringing this up.
polishdude20 5y ago
I sometimes have a similar feeling to you with my sense of self but rather than an expansion into infinity, it was a shrinking of my "soul" or a shrinking of me the viewer and letting my body do the outside world experiencing. It's like I retreat into a tiny control room in my brain where nobody can see me or hurt me and I let my body do the work of experiencing things as I watch. It's kind of similar in that my body becomes one with everything and my self shrinks so much that it's nothing.
Onewildgamer 5y ago
I suppose many of us have had such experience one way or the other. My exploration on such path had different phases. One important milestone I felt was, when our angels and demons calm and come to an agreement on some terms the inner spirit or I call the human takes charge. After which I feel free to observe the emotions and carry on with the same things but in a better and a conscious manner. Emotions of sympathy/attachment, anger, greed, envy and pride will all be still there but can be better managed and learnt that it's only necessary in this practical world. It's been about 3 years and counting since I've had such experience and since then every morning I'm trying to balance my mind like an audio equalizer :) A good construct I found along the way was to substitute envy with competition, pride with work, greed with giving, attachment/indifference with love. Neither of them too much that it'll consume me nor too little to keep me empty. If none of this works then find something else like a child. Anger is a beast of its own that I someday I intend to figure out. Cheers and Happy new year everybody

Dumblydorr 5y ago

Yes! Your experience is closest to mine. I tried Sam Harris's meditation, Joseph Goldstein's insight meditation, and came across "The Headless Path". This led to multiple moments where my consciousness expanded to fill it's container, in this case my old apartment, or a bar where I was playing music, or a shore next to a lake. It's almost like I became a 3D VR panorama of what I could sense, my center fell away and I fully absorbed the hundreds of sensations as one giant sphere. In this style, douglas Hardings Headless Path, you're attempting to realize that in some sense, "you" are not in your head. That's where we "feel" like we're centered, mostly because our eyes, ears, nose, and mouth are there. But even in reality, we can look for evidence of our head and find we don't have one. All we see is a dark void behind our nose. And behind that, we can feel what, our headache or sinuses, or the back of our head. But how are these "behind" our eyes? Aren't they just in a big cloud of sensation, too? And if we open our eyes, and let our gaze stretch and expand very widely, we might literally become absorbed into our surroundings, we'll feel like the world, not just a head. Really amazing feelings. I encourage folks try insight, mindfulness, and headless path meditation.

skinney6 5y ago
Rad, i'll look into this "headless path". I like trying to expand the fuzzy cloud while meditating sometimes which sounds like it's along those lines.
- chrispine 5y ago
  While I'm not necessarily a Sam Harris fan in general, I am a huge fan of his Waking Up app. It's approachable, serene, sacred (but also no-nonsense), and really just beautiful. And useful! I can't say enough good things about it.

fergonco 5y ago

Had something like that reading Herman Hesse as teenager. I learnt that I don't need to be or feel "good", necessarily. What you describe fits a lot what I experienced then. I don't give much importance to that but I think that plays a big role on what I have become. I point at the truth (as good as I can) and people think I am judgemental but I am absolutely not because I don't care about good or bad, generally. Then I heard Jordan Peterson, I think, pointing out that all emotions are useful. They are there because they have an evolutive advantage. For example the feeling of winning makes you play more, and losing makes you step back at some point and observe what happened (you cannot take it out of your head easily). For those that want the same experience without meditating :)

namero999 5y ago

Nice, similar exp. Check Bernardo Kastrup. Good friend of Spira, computer scientist who worked at CERN, now pushing idealism which is essentially western Advaita Vedanta.

skinney6 5y ago
I'm going thru Bernardo Kastrup's site now. Thank you.
- namero999 5y ago
  I think he shines best either in his books (the first, "Rationalist Spirituality" is very short and gives a good intro to his thought) or in YT interviews. The one with John Vervaeke or Curt Jaimungal are good picks. The blog is interesting but tend to also be an outlet for personal tantrums :) I've started a telegram channel to chit-chat about this topic. Anyway I guess the only relevant thing I want to share is that there are at least 2 paths to build for ourselves a consistent, integral worldview (one where meaning can be found, as meaning can only be found where there is structure): Propositional to Participative, or Participative to Propositional. That is, satisfy the brain, and open up the space to the transcendental, or go all the way into direct experience and then let the brain catch up. BK is path #1, Spira is path #2, and they have been very helpful to me.
  - skinney6 5y ago
    I've just watched a few of his vids he links to on his site, very interesting. I just read https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2016/04/conquering-fear-of-oblivion-in-15.html https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2016/04/conquering-fear-of-o... so well put. I'll read Rationalist Spirituality. Thanks again. Fascinating.

garyrob 5y ago

I recommend that you pick up a copy of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It may really resonate with you as well as deepen your insight. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0834800527/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MKGB7PGM14CWMVY443HG https://www.amazon.com/dp/0834800527/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MK...

toomim 5y ago
This is the philosophy that Steve Jobs followed, if I'm not mistaken.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Yes but please don't hold that against Zen Buddhism.
skinney6 5y ago
I'll check this out. Thanks!
garyrob 5y ago
Great! I think you may get a lot out of it, and I wish you well on your journey. It's without question the most-loved Zen-related book in the English language, and there are many them. It has greatly enriched many people's Buddhist practice, including mine.
garyrob 5y ago
...and the experience you describe is very, very resonant with Zen Buddhism.

colordrops 5y ago

What you are describing is an experience sought after by those practicing "nondual" meditation. Tibetan buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and Taoism are the major traditions in the east that practice this, though zen could also potentially be considered nondualist. I'm currently in a class taught by Michael Taft that takes a syncretic approach to teaching nondual meditation [1]. One of the best books on the subject is "Nonduality" by David Loy [2]. Michael mentioned that some people can achieve it right away with a single meditation and others take years. Sounds like you are in the former category. Unfortunately I'm in the latter. [1] https://deconstructingyourself.com/nondual-awareness-meditation-series https://deconstructingyourself.com/nondual-awareness-meditat... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Nonduality-Buddhism-David-R-Loy/dp/1614295247 https://www.amazon.com/Nonduality-Buddhism-David-R-Loy/dp/16...

skinney6 5y ago
Spira talks a lot about nondual. I'm on board. I'll check out your books. Thank you!
carterac 5y ago
Try googling 45 Days to Awakening course, a new and improved version of the Finder’s Course. Their data shows something like 65% of people reach that state after 45 days, up to 85% after a second course for total of 90 days. It sounds way too good to be true and I didn’t believe it myself until I did it and it worked for me, and then for several friends I convinced to take it. It took me over 90 days to get there (had to keep practicing the meditation styles that worked best for me) but then stabilized. One of my friends transitioned literally on her first meditation on day one. Good luck on your journey!
- Scarbutt 5y ago
  Typical scam website.

hackingthelema 5y ago

> "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. [...] With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now. I'd like to give a heads up that this can and may come crashing down[1]. The 'Dark Night of the Soul' is a very real phenomena, and it can happen out of nowhere -- just a normal meditation session. I'd suggest giving a search to 'mindfulness' and 'mental distress' or some such, if you continue on with this. It is really helpful to find a framework -- like Buddhism or Raja Yoga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with...) -- before diving too deep, to give you something to fall back on when it happens, otherwise it can result in quite unpleasant, hard to overcome and understand situations. Edit to add: The specific framework doesn't matter as much as having one at all (Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Yoga/etc.). [1] I just found this article but it seems a decent overview to me: https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul/ https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul...

bckr 5y ago
This is really important. GP's experience is beautiful. Yet, I recently read an article[] describing how there's very little help available to people who perhaps meditate too much and end up in spiritual crisis; meditation is sold as this panacea in our western world. > hackingthelema Love the user name. Would also love if you read my top-level comment on this thread. [] https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-powerful-mental-tool-and-for-some-it-goes-terribly-wrong https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-power...
orasis 5y ago
Thanks for raising this issue. I had to back from meditation entirely due to disassociation and energetic unwellness. Heavy physical exercise helped get me back in the body.
skinney6 5y ago
Great point. I have forgotten about this. There were at least 2, one heavy, one less so, periods early on of pretty profound depression. The first lasted maybe 2 or 3 days. It was a dark hole of just a profound sense of loss. I was taken back at first and questioned what I was getting into and stopped meditating for a few days but I got through it. I wish I could edit my comment to add this warning. Thank you for bringing this up.

polishdude20 5y ago

I sometimes have a similar feeling to you with my sense of self but rather than an expansion into infinity, it was a shrinking of my "soul" or a shrinking of me the viewer and letting my body do the outside world experiencing. It's like I retreat into a tiny control room in my brain where nobody can see me or hurt me and I let my body do the work of experiencing things as I watch. It's kind of similar in that my body becomes one with everything and my self shrinks so much that it's nothing.

Onewildgamer 5y ago

I suppose many of us have had such experience one way or the other. My exploration on such path had different phases. One important milestone I felt was, when our angels and demons calm and come to an agreement on some terms the inner spirit or I call the human takes charge. After which I feel free to observe the emotions and carry on with the same things but in a better and a conscious manner. Emotions of sympathy/attachment, anger, greed, envy and pride will all be still there but can be better managed and learnt that it's only necessary in this practical world. It's been about 3 years and counting since I've had such experience and since then every morning I'm trying to balance my mind like an audio equalizer :) A good construct I found along the way was to substitute envy with competition, pride with work, greed with giving, attachment/indifference with love. Neither of them too much that it'll consume me nor too little to keep me empty. If none of this works then find something else like a child. Anger is a beast of its own that I someday I intend to figure out. Cheers and Happy new year everybody