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I think they’ve done a pretty admirable job in trying to solve the privacy issues. The same thing that makes the product so effective is the same thing that mak

I think they’ve done a pretty admirable job in trying to solve the privacy issues. The same thing that makes the product so effective is the same thing that makes it problematic, and I don’t really see a way to solve it. The TILE has the same issues with none of the best effort solutions, it’s just less of an abuse vector because it’s a worse product. These articles of “this can be misused” feels like really low hanging fruit. Are there any solutions or ideas that are actually being suggested here?

colechristensen 5y ago
I’m just not so sure the power should exist to be available for abuse, regardless of how you try to “solve” it.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  By this logic we should surrender our arms and legs as well, and really just die.
  - kitsune_ 5y ago
    That doesn't follow at all "by this logic".
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      It does if you subscribe to slippery slope fallacies
    - sombremesa 5y ago
      It does. GP's entire argument is that power that can be abused should not exist.
      - colechristensen 5y ago
        I’m saying this specific power, you’re extrapolating that to mean I think this means all power instead of starting the discussion about what makes this power different that it deserves different treatment. Taking someone’s opinion and arguing against an extreme extrapolation of it doesn’t leave much room for discussion.
withinboredom 5y ago
In what way have they made an actual attempt to solve the privacy issues? If they were actually trying to solve the privacy issues, the precise location would get more and more vague depending how far you are from the tag. If they were actually trying to solve the privacy issues they’d delay/throttle position updates. These things don’t solve any real problems, short of losing your keys/purse. If it’s attached to a stolen item, the police probably don’t care and confronting the thief is probably a great way to get killed or end up getting yourself arrested until the cops can sort out the he-said-she-said.
- upbeat_general 5y ago
  They made it notify users when they are in the presence of an AirTag as they move around (that isn’t their own AirTag). > These things don’t solve any real problems, short of losing your keys/purse In other words a very common and frustrating occurrence for many many people.
  - MrDresden 5y ago
    Now if only they would extend that consideration to include the wast majority of people on this planet that do not own nor use any Apple products. How many Android users are being stalked without knowing about it? And yes, there are FOSS solutions on F-droid that partially solve this. But normal users wont know how to find them, and the onus is on Apple to supply an app with these kinds of features given that they are producing these trackers. /edit: I just now see mentions of an official Apple detector app that does just what I mentioned (had completely hone by me). While I'd rather that there were no trackers like these made, this will at least do for now. /edit2: It seems this official app requires users to actively scan for trackers rather than doing so from the background. That makes this a very weak attempt at appeasing the worries of non Apple users. Then the FOSS Airguard app is much better.
    - Schiendelman 5y ago
      At this point, your beef is with Google to scan in the background, not with Apple. Apple’s provided what they’re allowed to offer.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
It's not possible while only tracking the airtag. Here are some ideas, perhaps someone can improve it: - There's no reason for an airtag to be on the move + the iPhone owner in a separate location. A lost device is almost always are a desk/table/... Problem is the edge case when stolen. I'm not sure yet how to identify different behavior between stolen/stalking. - "stalking behavior" should be different from "lost device" behavior. Eg. Constantly looking to the app and following the airtag early Perhaps differentiating between state: stolen/lost. Where stolen should be redirected to an authority figure and lost is a signal beeping when you're nearby. But yeah, it's probably too much work.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Too much work for one of the largest tech companies? I have my doubts. They could solve this if they wanted to.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Not only that, but it could add additional actions when using an airtag.

colechristensen 5y ago

I’m just not so sure the power should exist to be available for abuse, regardless of how you try to “solve” it.

sombremesa 5y ago
By this logic we should surrender our arms and legs as well, and really just die.
- kitsune_ 5y ago
  That doesn't follow at all "by this logic".
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    It does if you subscribe to slippery slope fallacies
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    It does. GP's entire argument is that power that can be abused should not exist.
    - colechristensen 5y ago
      I’m saying this specific power, you’re extrapolating that to mean I think this means all power instead of starting the discussion about what makes this power different that it deserves different treatment. Taking someone’s opinion and arguing against an extreme extrapolation of it doesn’t leave much room for discussion.

withinboredom 5y ago

In what way have they made an actual attempt to solve the privacy issues? If they were actually trying to solve the privacy issues, the precise location would get more and more vague depending how far you are from the tag. If they were actually trying to solve the privacy issues they’d delay/throttle position updates. These things don’t solve any real problems, short of losing your keys/purse. If it’s attached to a stolen item, the police probably don’t care and confronting the thief is probably a great way to get killed or end up getting yourself arrested until the cops can sort out the he-said-she-said.

upbeat_general 5y ago
They made it notify users when they are in the presence of an AirTag as they move around (that isn’t their own AirTag). > These things don’t solve any real problems, short of losing your keys/purse In other words a very common and frustrating occurrence for many many people.
- MrDresden 5y ago
  Now if only they would extend that consideration to include the wast majority of people on this planet that do not own nor use any Apple products. How many Android users are being stalked without knowing about it? And yes, there are FOSS solutions on F-droid that partially solve this. But normal users wont know how to find them, and the onus is on Apple to supply an app with these kinds of features given that they are producing these trackers. /edit: I just now see mentions of an official Apple detector app that does just what I mentioned (had completely hone by me). While I'd rather that there were no trackers like these made, this will at least do for now. /edit2: It seems this official app requires users to actively scan for trackers rather than doing so from the background. That makes this a very weak attempt at appeasing the worries of non Apple users. Then the FOSS Airguard app is much better.
  - Schiendelman 5y ago
    At this point, your beef is with Google to scan in the background, not with Apple. Apple’s provided what they’re allowed to offer.

NicoJuicy 5y ago

It's not possible while only tracking the airtag. Here are some ideas, perhaps someone can improve it: - There's no reason for an airtag to be on the move + the iPhone owner in a separate location. A lost device is almost always are a desk/table/... Problem is the edge case when stolen. I'm not sure yet how to identify different behavior between stolen/stalking. - "stalking behavior" should be different from "lost device" behavior. Eg. Constantly looking to the app and following the airtag early Perhaps differentiating between state: stolen/lost. Where stolen should be redirected to an authority figure and lost is a signal beeping when you're nearby. But yeah, it's probably too much work.

netizen-936824 5y ago
Too much work for one of the largest tech companies? I have my doubts. They could solve this if they wanted to.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Not only that, but it could add additional actions when using an airtag.