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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme: > A Ponzi scheme is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays p
by acjohnson55 5y ago
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme:
> A Ponzi scheme is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors. The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from legitimate business activity (e.g., product sales or successful investments), and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds.
Sounds pretty Ponzi-like to me, even if that's not the intended mechanism of the company. I would agree that a literal, correct Ponzi scheme would involve no plausible way to make operational profits.
I think pump-and-dump is actually further from the dynamic the author is describing. Although pump-and-dumps don't absolutely have to be short-term, they tend to be.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump#Comparison_with_other_types_of_schemes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump#Comparison_with_...:
> - Ponzi schemes typically come with the expectation of profit over a relatively-extended period of time and typically last for months, years or even decades before their inevitable collapse. By comparison, pump and dump scams are designed to make profits extremely quickly and are executed over a period of weeks, days or even hours.
> - Ponzi schemes are occasionally the result of investment vehicles that are originally intended to be legitimate but ultimately fail to perform as expected. By comparison, pump and dump schemes are invariably intended to be scams from their conception, although a fairly common tactic employed by pump and dump schemers is to take over a once-legitimate business (one that is either failing or defunct), or even just its name, in order to pump and dump its stock.
- stickfigure 5y agoThe key difference is the word profit. Peloton et al do not claim to make a profit, there is no dividend. The reason the difference is important is because if you we understand what a Ponzi scheme really is, we won't be able to identify them and prosecute them. Claiming that "everything is a ponzi scheme" is actively harmful.
- panarky 5y agoPeloton doesn't claim to make a profit, but expectations of "profits" are the expectations of "investors", where early "investors" extract gains on their investment from new money coming in from later "investors". Just because a scheme is legal under current laws does not mean it is not a Ponzi or Ponzi-adjacent.
- stickfigure 5y agoIf you s/Ponzi/fraud/g in your last sentence, it's true. As written, it is false.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]