2 ms·

3 doses of pfizer seen to have more thab 75% protection against even Omicron. It was 90% before mutations for two doses The death rate on both are very low bu

3 doses of pfizer seen to have more thab 75% protection against even Omicron. It was 90% before mutations for two doses The death rate on both are very low but much higher for the virus. However, the risk of hospitalization is significant with the virus, and much, much higher than with the vaccine. I don't want to be hospitalized. That's a very bad time. The people that may die because I took up a hospital spot probably agree. The flu doesn't threaten to collapse the healthcare system without vaccines. COVID does.

Izkata 5y ago
> The flu doesn't threaten to collapse the healthcare system without vaccines. Yeah it does, even with vaccines... (2014) https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/flu-patients-fill-north-texas-hospital-beds/205638/ https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/flu-patients-fill-north-te... (2015) https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-closes-schools-flusters-hospitals-nationwide/story?id=28245734 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-closes-schools-flusters-ho... (2016) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/10/nhs-hospitals-overwhelmed-patients-could-die-top-doctor https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/10/nhs-hospital... (2017) https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel-operations-amid-brutal-flu-epidemic https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel... (2018) https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... It's a pretty consistent pattern: Every flu season, hospitals are overwhelmed by the flu. Those links are just from date-range searches and copying the first result (hence bouncing around countries); each year had plenty more from other countries.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  That is for a few hospitals. The flu is not serious to lead to an actual, complete, collapse of the healthcare system as a whole where no resources are left to treat immediately life threatening conditions. That's what we were facing with COVID. Even with unprecedented non-pharmaceutical interventions and with vaccines, many first world countries were at the point where they had to cancel cancer surgeries that were not immediately crucial to survival. That's not something that happens with the flu. Now the flu is very serious as your links show. The flu vaccine is around 40% effective against hospitalization (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378531/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378531/), and around 70% of seniors are vaccinated against the flu, for a total reduction of around 28%. If we removed that reduction, the flu could still not be severe enough to lead to a complete collapse of the healthcare system without serious intervention. With COVID, that is guaranteed to happen. But you're right in that the flu is a serious disease that puts a lot of strain on the healthcare system and I can understand how my comment could lead to underestimating that.

Izkata 5y ago

> The flu doesn't threaten to collapse the healthcare system without vaccines. Yeah it does, even with vaccines... (2014) https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/flu-patients-fill-north-texas-hospital-beds/205638/ https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/flu-patients-fill-north-te... (2015) https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-closes-schools-flusters-hospitals-nationwide/story?id=28245734 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-closes-schools-flusters-ho... (2016) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/10/nhs-hospitals-overwhelmed-patients-could-die-top-doctor https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/10/nhs-hospital... (2017) https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel-operations-amid-brutal-flu-epidemic https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel... (2018) https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/ https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie... It's a pretty consistent pattern: Every flu season, hospitals are overwhelmed by the flu. Those links are just from date-range searches and copying the first result (hence bouncing around countries); each year had plenty more from other countries.

sudosysgen 5y ago
That is for a few hospitals. The flu is not serious to lead to an actual, complete, collapse of the healthcare system as a whole where no resources are left to treat immediately life threatening conditions. That's what we were facing with COVID. Even with unprecedented non-pharmaceutical interventions and with vaccines, many first world countries were at the point where they had to cancel cancer surgeries that were not immediately crucial to survival. That's not something that happens with the flu. Now the flu is very serious as your links show. The flu vaccine is around 40% effective against hospitalization (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378531/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378531/), and around 70% of seniors are vaccinated against the flu, for a total reduction of around 28%. If we removed that reduction, the flu could still not be severe enough to lead to a complete collapse of the healthcare system without serious intervention. With COVID, that is guaranteed to happen. But you're right in that the flu is a serious disease that puts a lot of strain on the healthcare system and I can understand how my comment could lead to underestimating that.