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> If someone desperately doesn't want God to exist, nothing will prove it to them. Proof that God exists: everyone in the world wakes up with a plate of cheese

> If someone desperately doesn't want God to exist, nothing will prove it to them. Proof that God exists: everyone in the world wakes up with a plate of cheesecake next to them and a note saying "I'm sorry for all the stuff that's messed up. I'm trying my best. -Yahweh" Done. Just an example. I'm sure an omnipotent omniscient omni-something omni-somethingelse person could figure out something equally convincing if he/she didn't want to do that. The best part is that it would actually be appropriate now that we have video recording and a huge communications network so that future generations won't have to rely on "copies of copies of translations of copies by anonymous authors of which we have no originals" (quote taken from this video youtu.be/DAuFJKQh83Y#t=6m , I really like the show... sometimes). > There is no shortage of evidence that he is real and acts in history. None of those things prove the existence God. If you pick a different book the first two could prove that Hogwarts exists. What experience of the modern church? Aren't they the ones having trouble keeping cops away from pedophiles? Lastly, what makes you think that we are going to find out that the origin of the universe (which is not yet known) has been caused by something unnatural/supernatural unlike everything else we have ever discovered? > I think most Christians I have talked to have, once or twice in life, personally observed something Personal experience is kind of a strange thing. I don't really know how it relates to proof or evidence. However, I do know that there are people you can go and talk to who will explain how they were abducted by aliens and had children by them. It's not hard to believe that they experienced something, but it is hard to believe their story. I sometimes wonder if the same might happen to me, then I would be one of those crazy people. Anyway, right now I am of the opinion that you need something independently verifiable for it to be considered evidence. > I know what the voice of God sounds like. > heard something that turned out to be false or worthless, I wouldn't just say, "Well, I guess that wasn't God." And you are certain that it isn't from another agent like the devil? People have been communing with the Gods for a long time. I kind of wonder how you evaluate someone else as having that ability. You don't accept that the Oracle of Delphi was legitimate right? Anyway, I think you are right that your claim is closer to out of body experience claims than other unfalsifiable ones. Still though if your claim proves to be false, that doesn't mean that God doesn't talk to humans. That claim is still unfalsifiable. I also have to ask if people can communicate with God then why don't people use that to finally solve all of the differences between the different denominations? Is Jesus really against minimum wage? Lastly, I didn't want to be a huge bother to anyone. I'm really not trained in any of this so do take my words as someone who is just that. If I say anything sophomoric or otherwise annoying, I'm sorry. If you point it out I will try to explain why I said it and/or apologize again.

Dove 15y ago
> Proof that God exists: everyone in the world wakes up with a plate of cheesecake next to them and a note saying "I'm sorry for all the stuff that's messed up. I'm trying my best. -Yahweh" Done. Just an example. You think that would work? I don't think it would. It'd be the talked-about event of the century for sure, but I don't think it would make any difference whatsoever in which people believed in God. Think seriously about it. What would it be like if that actually happened? That and nothing else. If the church still had all the problems it does today. The Bible still had all the problems you perceive. The philosophical arguments against God's existence still apply. He still didn't save your mother/dog/goldfish back in 1998. Just . . . everyone has cheesecake and a note. You'd credit God with having done that? Instead of, say . . . - Some really organized followers of his - Someone who invented a new, let's say, matter/energy conversion technology and wanted to play a prank on the world - Aliens approximately as advanced as Star Trek - Mass delusion (everyone made their own cheesecakes and notes -- maybe it's something in the water?) - Some extradimensional powerful being that nonetheless isn't Yahweh. More like Loki. - Mass hallucination (mind control?) -- it didn't happen but we all think it did. - Proof positive that you are, in fact, a brain in a vat. - Some unexplained phenomenon that, whatever it might be, sure as heck ain't God because of all the problems with that I mean, weren't you the one earlier in this thread telling lotharbot his mystical experiences could be explained by ghosts? You know who would interpret it as evidence for God's existence? People who already believe in him. Miracles are like that. They are just another class of evidence; if the other classes aren't persuasive to you, they won't even rock your boat. There is no such thing as proof in reality. No such thing at all. Philosophers will tell you that you can't prove your mother exists, and they're right. Proof is too high a standard for real things. In the real world, all we have is evidence.
- Dove 15y ago
  > You know who would interpret it as evidence for God's existence? People who already believe in him. And actually, that's probably not even true. If what you described literally happened, I wouldn't entertain for a minute that it was God's work, it being so profoundly unlike him on so many levels.

Dove 15y ago

> Proof that God exists: everyone in the world wakes up with a plate of cheesecake next to them and a note saying "I'm sorry for all the stuff that's messed up. I'm trying my best. -Yahweh" Done. Just an example. You think that would work? I don't think it would. It'd be the talked-about event of the century for sure, but I don't think it would make any difference whatsoever in which people believed in God. Think seriously about it. What would it be like if that actually happened? That and nothing else. If the church still had all the problems it does today. The Bible still had all the problems you perceive. The philosophical arguments against God's existence still apply. He still didn't save your mother/dog/goldfish back in 1998. Just . . . everyone has cheesecake and a note. You'd credit God with having done that? Instead of, say . . . - Some really organized followers of his - Someone who invented a new, let's say, matter/energy conversion technology and wanted to play a prank on the world - Aliens approximately as advanced as Star Trek - Mass delusion (everyone made their own cheesecakes and notes -- maybe it's something in the water?) - Some extradimensional powerful being that nonetheless isn't Yahweh. More like Loki. - Mass hallucination (mind control?) -- it didn't happen but we all think it did. - Proof positive that you are, in fact, a brain in a vat. - Some unexplained phenomenon that, whatever it might be, sure as heck ain't God because of all the problems with that I mean, weren't you the one earlier in this thread telling lotharbot his mystical experiences could be explained by ghosts? You know who would interpret it as evidence for God's existence? People who already believe in him. Miracles are like that. They are just another class of evidence; if the other classes aren't persuasive to you, they won't even rock your boat. There is no such thing as proof in reality. No such thing at all. Philosophers will tell you that you can't prove your mother exists, and they're right. Proof is too high a standard for real things. In the real world, all we have is evidence.

Dove 15y ago
> You know who would interpret it as evidence for God's existence? People who already believe in him. And actually, that's probably not even true. If what you described literally happened, I wouldn't entertain for a minute that it was God's work, it being so profoundly unlike him on so many levels.