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One game you are unlucky, another one you are lucky. I've played hundereds of BW 2p matches, and lost/won only due to extreme run of good or bad luck maybe in 3

One game you are unlucky, another one you are lucky. I've played hundereds of BW 2p matches, and lost/won only due to extreme run of good or bad luck maybe in 3% of games. Just move on and play the next game. Or play chess.

chongli 5y ago
That’s called metagaming. In NetHack you would see people drinking from fountains all the time in the early game. Occasionally you’d get a wish which you could spend on some powerful artifact or silver dragon scale mail (SDSM) and win the game. Most of the time you’d unleash a bunch of water moccasins or a water demon and die immediately. Needless to say you could win games of NetHack by doing the metagaming strategy. The problem is that it wasn’t going to help you win the current game in front of you, the one you’re playing right now. And that’s where some players (like myself) part ways with metagaming. We are interested in winning the current game. That is, taking every game as a unique puzzle to solve and attempting to win. So a game that randomly decides “haha you lose” is unsatisfying.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Well, it's battle for you. Your knight clad in iron is almost invincible on the field, unless some lucky arrow strikes him in the visor, killing him instantly. Real life is full of accidents, and BoW more or less honestly imitates that. (I mostly used save-scumming in the campaign, due to overwhelming odds anyway, so I'm speaking about luck in multiplayer games)
  - chongli 5y ago
    I think we’re speaking at cross purposes then because I was mostly speaking about the campaign. If Wesnoth was designed only for one-off battles and units were meant to be sacrificed like chess pieces in singular pursuit of a victory then a campaign is wholly inappropriate. The original point of comparison here is Heroes of Might and Magic which does not have this problem since the game is designed as a campaign with many battles and the leveling up aspect only applies to heroes which are essentially generals that do not directly participate in battle.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      Yes, I was speaking about p2p. Campaigns in Wesnoth can be tough, but I always used save scumming to beat them. I think they are an afterthought and clearly main developers' focus is multiplayer, and all factions are balanced with it in mind. That said, that Double Suns campaign with desert elves is quite great and I enjoyed it, even if it uses rather different settings from the base game.

chongli 5y ago

That’s called metagaming. In NetHack you would see people drinking from fountains all the time in the early game. Occasionally you’d get a wish which you could spend on some powerful artifact or silver dragon scale mail (SDSM) and win the game. Most of the time you’d unleash a bunch of water moccasins or a water demon and die immediately. Needless to say you could win games of NetHack by doing the metagaming strategy. The problem is that it wasn’t going to help you win the current game in front of you, the one you’re playing right now. And that’s where some players (like myself) part ways with metagaming. We are interested in winning the current game. That is, taking every game as a unique puzzle to solve and attempting to win. So a game that randomly decides “haha you lose” is unsatisfying.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
Well, it's battle for you. Your knight clad in iron is almost invincible on the field, unless some lucky arrow strikes him in the visor, killing him instantly. Real life is full of accidents, and BoW more or less honestly imitates that. (I mostly used save-scumming in the campaign, due to overwhelming odds anyway, so I'm speaking about luck in multiplayer games)
- chongli 5y ago
  I think we’re speaking at cross purposes then because I was mostly speaking about the campaign. If Wesnoth was designed only for one-off battles and units were meant to be sacrificed like chess pieces in singular pursuit of a victory then a campaign is wholly inappropriate. The original point of comparison here is Heroes of Might and Magic which does not have this problem since the game is designed as a campaign with many battles and the leveling up aspect only applies to heroes which are essentially generals that do not directly participate in battle.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    Yes, I was speaking about p2p. Campaigns in Wesnoth can be tough, but I always used save scumming to beat them. I think they are an afterthought and clearly main developers' focus is multiplayer, and all factions are balanced with it in mind. That said, that Double Suns campaign with desert elves is quite great and I enjoyed it, even if it uses rather different settings from the base game.