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I do not believe that "more" money will create jobs or homes. The bigger question is why does it make sense for companies to optimize for luxury apartments or m

by pylua 5y ago

I do not believe that "more" money will create jobs or homes. The bigger question is why does it make sense for companies to optimize for luxury apartments or mansions, that are well out of reach for most people. Why does our system of capitalism incentivize that? Should it not incentivize taking care of society? Why have workers wages been stagnant over the past decades? It is clear that the capitalism practiced in America is starting to harm society at a fundamental level. Why does our government allow companies to pay wages that are so little people are basically ostracized from education, health care, and housing? That is messed up. Why does our government allow companies in the United States to benefit off of cheap labor in countries that do not treat their citizens fairly and exploit them? I'm not saying that I have all the answers here, because it is a complicated problem, but it is important to bring the obvious truths to the forefront.

trixie_ 5y ago
If you want to see capitalism with a lot less rules, harming the poor and environment then go back 50 years. Then go back 100 and 150. It gets much much worse than where we are today. If you have perspective you’ll realize that while things are never perfect, they are improving. And you do recognize ‘why’ as well in your own post - the government. The gov sets the rules and playing field for capitalism to regulate resources. Still you don’t understand when you say, why don’t companies pay higher wages. As that would create more healthcare, education or homes, as opposed to inflating prices. I’ll say it again, money doesn’t create resources it only balances the limited resources that exist right now. To increase resources in a sustainable way requires improved education and technology to increase productivity.
- pylua 5y ago
  It doesn't matter that it isn't perfect; the point is to call out the flaws so the problems can be addressed properly. For some reason it is taboo to mention the issues caused by the current system. The reality is that people who are attempting to articulate the flaws are driven by a sense of fear and remorse that society seems to be decaying and eroding at an alarming pace. I only wish to produce the best system for the generation of my children. I strongly suspect that the current system of capitalism has conspired to lower the overall well being of American workers on several fronts. For one, it is impossible to compete with countries that do not have the same moral compass/laws for treatment of their workers as the United States. There is an obvious cost associated with this. Many jobs have been shipped overseas, along with supply chains and the ability to produce important materials and equipment. Entire cities have no opportunity, and no way to improve themselves. Heck, in a crisis, could the United States military even build the equipment it needs to compete completely in the United States? The point is that, the way system has been working in the past several decades has pulled the rug out from underneath the average American, and the country as a whole. It must be recalibrated. I would tend to suggest that, if managed properly, we would already be at a point where the people in the lowest rungs of society could have home ownership.
  - trixie_ 5y ago
    There is no conspiracy. It is in our best interest to have the most educated, stable, productive people possible in our society for our collective well being. While at the same time not forcing people to work or study and giving them the ability to make their own choices. It’s a super hard optimization problem that we’re constantly trying to find better solutions to. To think someone is plotting to ‘keep people down’ assumes there’s some super smart god like person out there pulling all the levers and playing 5 dimensional chess. I guarantee you there isn’t.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      > To think someone is plotting to ‘keep people down’ assumes there’s some super smart god like person out there pulling all the levers and playing 5 dimensional chess No it doesn't. You just have to be paying attention to politics. There is right now an ongoing political debate about whether we need to lower child poverty (child tax credit) or starve the poor into working. It's in the New York Times, it's on Fox News, it's everywhere. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/13/opinion/stimulus-unemployment-republicans-poverty.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/13/opinion/stimulus-unemploy... https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-guest-says-poor-people-are-dogs-need-be-starved-be-kept-obedient https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-guest-says-po... The political class determines the level of deprivation of the poor explicitly in order to manipulate productivity and employment.
landemva 5y ago
'benefit off of cheap labor'. It is also the ease and convenience of outsourcing pollution of iPhone manufacturing to Foxconn in China, for example. A wage parity import tariff could be difficult to implement. It could be easier to implement environmental parity tariffs. Did anyone notice Trump didn't close the Mexico border in 2020 though the Canada border was closed? Maybe environmental parity tariffs would encourage manufacturing on-shoring and relieve pressures on foreign imports at the ports. The current administration would make many blue collar friends if they started this. And those focused on a clean environment would like it, too.
erik_seaberg 5y ago
This is capitalism reacting to bad government policy. An artificial shortage of construction permits means only the high bidders (luxury condos) get them. Tuition keeps rising as long as we keep guaranteeing reckless loans for teenagers. Health insurance lacks competition because it’s mostly arranged through blanket contracts with employers for tax reasons (dating back to world war two!)

by pylua 5y ago

trixie_ 5y ago

If you want to see capitalism with a lot less rules, harming the poor and environment then go back 50 years. Then go back 100 and 150. It gets much much worse than where we are today. If you have perspective you’ll realize that while things are never perfect, they are improving. And you do recognize ‘why’ as well in your own post - the government. The gov sets the rules and playing field for capitalism to regulate resources. Still you don’t understand when you say, why don’t companies pay higher wages. As that would create more healthcare, education or homes, as opposed to inflating prices. I’ll say it again, money doesn’t create resources it only balances the limited resources that exist right now. To increase resources in a sustainable way requires improved education and technology to increase productivity.

pylua 5y ago
It doesn't matter that it isn't perfect; the point is to call out the flaws so the problems can be addressed properly. For some reason it is taboo to mention the issues caused by the current system. The reality is that people who are attempting to articulate the flaws are driven by a sense of fear and remorse that society seems to be decaying and eroding at an alarming pace. I only wish to produce the best system for the generation of my children. I strongly suspect that the current system of capitalism has conspired to lower the overall well being of American workers on several fronts. For one, it is impossible to compete with countries that do not have the same moral compass/laws for treatment of their workers as the United States. There is an obvious cost associated with this. Many jobs have been shipped overseas, along with supply chains and the ability to produce important materials and equipment. Entire cities have no opportunity, and no way to improve themselves. Heck, in a crisis, could the United States military even build the equipment it needs to compete completely in the United States? The point is that, the way system has been working in the past several decades has pulled the rug out from underneath the average American, and the country as a whole. It must be recalibrated. I would tend to suggest that, if managed properly, we would already be at a point where the people in the lowest rungs of society could have home ownership.
- trixie_ 5y ago
  There is no conspiracy. It is in our best interest to have the most educated, stable, productive people possible in our society for our collective well being. While at the same time not forcing people to work or study and giving them the ability to make their own choices. It’s a super hard optimization problem that we’re constantly trying to find better solutions to. To think someone is plotting to ‘keep people down’ assumes there’s some super smart god like person out there pulling all the levers and playing 5 dimensional chess. I guarantee you there isn’t.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    > To think someone is plotting to ‘keep people down’ assumes there’s some super smart god like person out there pulling all the levers and playing 5 dimensional chess No it doesn't. You just have to be paying attention to politics. There is right now an ongoing political debate about whether we need to lower child poverty (child tax credit) or starve the poor into working. It's in the New York Times, it's on Fox News, it's everywhere. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/13/opinion/stimulus-unemployment-republicans-poverty.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/13/opinion/stimulus-unemploy... https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-guest-says-poor-people-are-dogs-need-be-starved-be-kept-obedient https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-guest-says-po... The political class determines the level of deprivation of the poor explicitly in order to manipulate productivity and employment.

landemva 5y ago

'benefit off of cheap labor'. It is also the ease and convenience of outsourcing pollution of iPhone manufacturing to Foxconn in China, for example. A wage parity import tariff could be difficult to implement. It could be easier to implement environmental parity tariffs. Did anyone notice Trump didn't close the Mexico border in 2020 though the Canada border was closed? Maybe environmental parity tariffs would encourage manufacturing on-shoring and relieve pressures on foreign imports at the ports. The current administration would make many blue collar friends if they started this. And those focused on a clean environment would like it, too.

erik_seaberg 5y ago

This is capitalism reacting to bad government policy. An artificial shortage of construction permits means only the high bidders (luxury condos) get them. Tuition keeps rising as long as we keep guaranteeing reckless loans for teenagers. Health insurance lacks competition because it’s mostly arranged through blanket contracts with employers for tax reasons (dating back to world war two!)