5 ms·

I don't disagree with you because I've gone through a divorce that halved my net worth but I don't think "don’t live in a common law state" is decent advice. I

by vecinu 5y ago

I don't disagree with you because I've gone through a divorce that halved my net worth but I don't think "don’t live in a common law state" is decent advice. If you ignore all of California, you miss out on higher compensation and interesting work opportunities. Should you live your life such that you limit your opportunities? I don't think so. I don't think ignoring serious relationships altogether or avoiding children because of the potential financial headache they could cause is a healthy way of thinking about your future, purpose and what you want, just my 2 cents.

bradlys 5y ago
California is not a common law state. I am not purposing avoiding serious relationships either. I’m proposing avoiding the legal contracts that will not do you any good.
- novok 5y ago
  Also to add, when your income starts getting into tech amounts, it's actually MORE tax efficient to not be married than to be married unless your spouse does not work. Also there is nothing preventing you getting rings, having a wedding and having a marriage relationship.
  - vecinu 5y ago
    Can you expand on this? TurboTax always recommended filing joint for all the years I was married even though my wife earned a lot less than me. My tax rate went up a ton after the divorce.
    - novok 5y ago
      https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marriage-penalty.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marriage-penalty.asp
      - vecinu 5y ago
        Right, as your link details, I experienced a marriage bonus due to my partner earning a lot less than I did. So I suppose I was in the happy/lucky camp but I didn't realize it's a penalty for 2 high earners. TIL, thanks.
- vecinu 5y ago
  > California is not a common law state. My apologies, you're absolutely correct. I have no idea why I thought CA was common law. Probably after the divorce I got bombarded with information and it was all soup in my brain. > I’m proposing avoiding the legal contracts that will not do you any good. It's only an issue if you have kids and/or plan to immigrate to a different country. Being married helps there.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I have no idea why I thought CA was common law. My guess is that it isa conflation of “community property” with “common law”, as both relate to marriage and are similar enough in name that it is easy to swap them in memory. Also, community property is the one more relevant to what happens in divorce, while common law is about formation of marriage.
    - vecinu 5y ago
      You're right, that's where I got confused. Since I was married, everything was considered community property, so it's good to know California doesn't enforce community property on non-married couples, since it doesn't recognize common law marriages.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Since I was married, everything was considered community property Whether this is true (in the absence of a prenup, etc.) depends on record keeping and where (and particularly when) your assets come from; the somewhat oversimplified version is that a ssets (and debts) acquired between the beginning of marriage and separation that are not gifts or inheritances specifically intended for one or the other of the spouses are community property by default, those acquired before marriage or after separation (even before divorce) are separate property.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Marriage for kids isn't necessary. You can prove you're a parent and that you have a legal right to your child even if you are unmarried. I've known plenty of couples who had kids without being married and it wasn't an issue. The immigration part is more difficult but you can get married temporarily for the purposes of immigration unless you're specifically moving to that place to live there forever. I've known people who have done this and it is clearly very feasible. They got legally divorced after. However - I am assuming that both people in a relationship are going to be working and therefore this is a not a problem. If one is not going to be working then that adds a layer of complexity. Marriage law at that point is weird. Personally - I'm tailoring my advice for the overwhelming majority of people - not the one-off weird scenarios that most Americans are not going to be dealing with. 60%+ of people in the USA don't even have a passport. And they definitely aren't thinking of leaving permanently - lol.

by vecinu 5y ago

bradlys 5y ago

California is not a common law state. I am not purposing avoiding serious relationships either. I’m proposing avoiding the legal contracts that will not do you any good.

novok 5y ago
Also to add, when your income starts getting into tech amounts, it's actually MORE tax efficient to not be married than to be married unless your spouse does not work. Also there is nothing preventing you getting rings, having a wedding and having a marriage relationship.
- vecinu 5y ago
  Can you expand on this? TurboTax always recommended filing joint for all the years I was married even though my wife earned a lot less than me. My tax rate went up a ton after the divorce.
  - novok 5y ago
    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marriage-penalty.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marriage-penalty.asp
    - vecinu 5y ago
      Right, as your link details, I experienced a marriage bonus due to my partner earning a lot less than I did. So I suppose I was in the happy/lucky camp but I didn't realize it's a penalty for 2 high earners. TIL, thanks.
vecinu 5y ago
> California is not a common law state. My apologies, you're absolutely correct. I have no idea why I thought CA was common law. Probably after the divorce I got bombarded with information and it was all soup in my brain. > I’m proposing avoiding the legal contracts that will not do you any good. It's only an issue if you have kids and/or plan to immigrate to a different country. Being married helps there.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I have no idea why I thought CA was common law. My guess is that it isa conflation of “community property” with “common law”, as both relate to marriage and are similar enough in name that it is easy to swap them in memory. Also, community property is the one more relevant to what happens in divorce, while common law is about formation of marriage.
  - vecinu 5y ago
    You're right, that's where I got confused. Since I was married, everything was considered community property, so it's good to know California doesn't enforce community property on non-married couples, since it doesn't recognize common law marriages.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Since I was married, everything was considered community property Whether this is true (in the absence of a prenup, etc.) depends on record keeping and where (and particularly when) your assets come from; the somewhat oversimplified version is that a ssets (and debts) acquired between the beginning of marriage and separation that are not gifts or inheritances specifically intended for one or the other of the spouses are community property by default, those acquired before marriage or after separation (even before divorce) are separate property.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Marriage for kids isn't necessary. You can prove you're a parent and that you have a legal right to your child even if you are unmarried. I've known plenty of couples who had kids without being married and it wasn't an issue. The immigration part is more difficult but you can get married temporarily for the purposes of immigration unless you're specifically moving to that place to live there forever. I've known people who have done this and it is clearly very feasible. They got legally divorced after. However - I am assuming that both people in a relationship are going to be working and therefore this is a not a problem. If one is not going to be working then that adds a layer of complexity. Marriage law at that point is weird. Personally - I'm tailoring my advice for the overwhelming majority of people - not the one-off weird scenarios that most Americans are not going to be dealing with. 60%+ of people in the USA don't even have a passport. And they definitely aren't thinking of leaving permanently - lol.