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> You are equating guilt with acknowledging privilege, and those aren’t the same. When someone says "check your privilege", they're saying that you've done som

by anamax 5y ago

> You are equating guilt with acknowledging privilege, and those aren’t the same. When someone says "check your privilege", they're saying that you've done something wrong and should feel guilty.

borski 5y ago
No, they aren’t. They are saying you should consider if and how your privilege helped you out, because sometimes that isn’t transferable to other people; someone black in a job interview may not have the same experience someone white does, and that’s okay, but it’s important to recognize if and how being white helped so that someone who isn’t white can account for that and adjust. It has nothing at all to do with guilt.
- DangitBobby 5y ago
  It does have something to do with guilt, because the ultimate concession of acknowledging privilege is that you didn't truly earn your advantages, which is a root cause of perpetuated injustice. That's where the guilt lives: being the beneficiary of systematic injustice. This doesn't make you a bad person, of course; pretty much anyone in a position of privilege will capatalize on it, as that is human nature.
  - borski 5y ago
    Acknowledging privilege doesn’t imply you didn’t earn your advantages; it implies there were some that were handed to you. Plenty of others need to be earned. It is rare, extremely rare, to meet someone with absolutely no privilege, and that isn’t a place to aspire to.
- anamax 5y ago
  > They are saying you should consider if and how your privilege helped you out Yes, they are. "Check your privilege" is often used to say "you didn't do that." Even if you assume that "privilege" is a big reason why you had an opportunity, there are almost always many people with the same "privilege" who didn't do said thing. Moreover, it's almost always some skin color argument. There are many "don't look white" people who had privileges that I didn't have but I'm supposed to "check my privilege."
  - borski 5y ago
    The idea is simply to acknowledge where your privilege helped you, and how others may not have had the same experiences or ease of access to certain things, etc. The trope of “he’s black and rich, and I’m white and poor” is irrelevant, as there are different kinds of privilege. In rural Alabama, being white and poor is going to lend you a much closer set of relationships than being black and rich. In SF, it may be the other way around - the point is everyone should simply be aware of how various privilege has helped them. And again: this takes nothing away from hard work. It simply acknowledges that another person who worked just as hard but had a different set of lived experiences and privileges may not have the same result. That’s not bad; just fact. And again: it has nothing to do with guilt. You shouldn’t feel guilty about it; ~everyone has some kind of privilege. But ignoring it or pretending it doesn’t exist is the exact opposite of the point, which is, at the end of the day, an exercise in empathy.
    - anamax 5y ago
      Bull. I've seen "check your privilege" used to shut people down, to shame them, etc. I've never seen it used as a positive thing. It's telling that you really want to say that no black person has privilege. You'd certainly never tell one to "check your privilege." How much time have you actually spent in rural Alabama? I say that because the most racist places in the US are urban, the NE and the coasts, not the south. Yes, there are racists everywhere, but the only places where blacks and whites interact productively at scale are in the south.
      - borski 5y ago
        Calm down, and stop assuming malice where there is none, please. Firstly, I never implied or said that no black person has privilege. Second, my entire point that you seem to be missing is that everyone should recognize what privilege they do have and have benefited from. I’ve spent plenty of time in the South; I am not implying there is no way for a black person to interact productively with white people in the South. I am suggesting that, generally, in a lot of rural areas of the South, being white lends you more “immediate credit” than being black. And, to your point, that was but one example. I could have said “inner cities,” and made the same point. That does not, in any way, change the point; it only serves to reinforce it.
- vanusa 5y ago
  It has nothing at all to do with guilt. Guilt is too strong of term. But it is very much used as a kind of penalty box, or way of distancing the receiver from the speaker. And as far as enlightening those who supposedly need uplifting to the higher, more evolved plane that the speaker inhabits -- it just doesn't do much.
  - borski 5y ago
    I agree people often misuse it, in the same vein that people often misuse other “you are the other” type arguments like equating conservative with Trumper or liberal with “socialist” or pick your favorite. But it’s misuse shouldn’t change the meaning of its intent. At least I hope it doesn’t, because I believe there is still value in empathy.
    - anamax 5y ago
      > But it’s misuse shouldn’t change the meaning of its intent. The use is the intent. And it's used as a weapon. Notice when it's used, and when it isn't. (You'd never say it to a black or brown person. Did I have "privilege" when I lived in a labor camp?) > At least I hope it doesn’t, because I believe there is still value in empathy. There is value in empathy, but "check your privilege" isn't empathy. You know nothing about my "privilege". You have no basis for telling me to "check my privilege" and saying that only proves that you not only have no empathy for me, you have no interest in me except to accomplish your political goals.
      - borski 5y ago
        I absolutely would, and have, said it to people of color when it applied. (Although, admittedly, I have never phrased it as “check your privilege” because of precisely this vitriolic response which defeats the purpose; I normally phrase it as a question about if any exists) I didn’t say anything about your privilege. Were I to, I would be asking. There is nothing here to be defensive about. I have no political goals here. We’re having a non-political discussion.
        5y ago
vanusa 5y ago
When someone says "check your privilege", they're saying that you've done something wrong and should feel guilty. This shouldn't be downvoted. It's become a socially acceptable insult, in some circles (which basically means the receiver is less empathic / socially aware than thou) -- or at the very least, a thought-terminating cliché. I know there's a bunch of nice and wholesome stuff it's supposed to mean (like the sibling commenter points out); but the way it's typically bandied about in modern discourse (as an STFU signal, more or less) -- it isn't what it really means. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché

by anamax 5y ago

> You are equating guilt with acknowledging privilege, and those aren’t the same. When someone says "check your privilege", they're saying that you've done something wrong and should feel guilty.

borski 5y ago

No, they aren’t. They are saying you should consider if and how your privilege helped you out, because sometimes that isn’t transferable to other people; someone black in a job interview may not have the same experience someone white does, and that’s okay, but it’s important to recognize if and how being white helped so that someone who isn’t white can account for that and adjust. It has nothing at all to do with guilt.

DangitBobby 5y ago
It does have something to do with guilt, because the ultimate concession of acknowledging privilege is that you didn't truly earn your advantages, which is a root cause of perpetuated injustice. That's where the guilt lives: being the beneficiary of systematic injustice. This doesn't make you a bad person, of course; pretty much anyone in a position of privilege will capatalize on it, as that is human nature.
- borski 5y ago
  Acknowledging privilege doesn’t imply you didn’t earn your advantages; it implies there were some that were handed to you. Plenty of others need to be earned. It is rare, extremely rare, to meet someone with absolutely no privilege, and that isn’t a place to aspire to.
anamax 5y ago
> They are saying you should consider if and how your privilege helped you out Yes, they are. "Check your privilege" is often used to say "you didn't do that." Even if you assume that "privilege" is a big reason why you had an opportunity, there are almost always many people with the same "privilege" who didn't do said thing. Moreover, it's almost always some skin color argument. There are many "don't look white" people who had privileges that I didn't have but I'm supposed to "check my privilege."
- borski 5y ago
  The idea is simply to acknowledge where your privilege helped you, and how others may not have had the same experiences or ease of access to certain things, etc. The trope of “he’s black and rich, and I’m white and poor” is irrelevant, as there are different kinds of privilege. In rural Alabama, being white and poor is going to lend you a much closer set of relationships than being black and rich. In SF, it may be the other way around - the point is everyone should simply be aware of how various privilege has helped them. And again: this takes nothing away from hard work. It simply acknowledges that another person who worked just as hard but had a different set of lived experiences and privileges may not have the same result. That’s not bad; just fact. And again: it has nothing to do with guilt. You shouldn’t feel guilty about it; ~everyone has some kind of privilege. But ignoring it or pretending it doesn’t exist is the exact opposite of the point, which is, at the end of the day, an exercise in empathy.
  - anamax 5y ago
    Bull. I've seen "check your privilege" used to shut people down, to shame them, etc. I've never seen it used as a positive thing. It's telling that you really want to say that no black person has privilege. You'd certainly never tell one to "check your privilege." How much time have you actually spent in rural Alabama? I say that because the most racist places in the US are urban, the NE and the coasts, not the south. Yes, there are racists everywhere, but the only places where blacks and whites interact productively at scale are in the south.
    - borski 5y ago
      Calm down, and stop assuming malice where there is none, please. Firstly, I never implied or said that no black person has privilege. Second, my entire point that you seem to be missing is that everyone should recognize what privilege they do have and have benefited from. I’ve spent plenty of time in the South; I am not implying there is no way for a black person to interact productively with white people in the South. I am suggesting that, generally, in a lot of rural areas of the South, being white lends you more “immediate credit” than being black. And, to your point, that was but one example. I could have said “inner cities,” and made the same point. That does not, in any way, change the point; it only serves to reinforce it.
vanusa 5y ago
It has nothing at all to do with guilt. Guilt is too strong of term. But it is very much used as a kind of penalty box, or way of distancing the receiver from the speaker. And as far as enlightening those who supposedly need uplifting to the higher, more evolved plane that the speaker inhabits -- it just doesn't do much.
- borski 5y ago
  I agree people often misuse it, in the same vein that people often misuse other “you are the other” type arguments like equating conservative with Trumper or liberal with “socialist” or pick your favorite. But it’s misuse shouldn’t change the meaning of its intent. At least I hope it doesn’t, because I believe there is still value in empathy.
  - anamax 5y ago
    > But it’s misuse shouldn’t change the meaning of its intent. The use is the intent. And it's used as a weapon. Notice when it's used, and when it isn't. (You'd never say it to a black or brown person. Did I have "privilege" when I lived in a labor camp?) > At least I hope it doesn’t, because I believe there is still value in empathy. There is value in empathy, but "check your privilege" isn't empathy. You know nothing about my "privilege". You have no basis for telling me to "check my privilege" and saying that only proves that you not only have no empathy for me, you have no interest in me except to accomplish your political goals.
    - borski 5y ago
      I absolutely would, and have, said it to people of color when it applied. (Although, admittedly, I have never phrased it as “check your privilege” because of precisely this vitriolic response which defeats the purpose; I normally phrase it as a question about if any exists) I didn’t say anything about your privilege. Were I to, I would be asking. There is nothing here to be defensive about. I have no political goals here. We’re having a non-political discussion.
      - 5y ago

vanusa 5y ago

When someone says "check your privilege", they're saying that you've done something wrong and should feel guilty. This shouldn't be downvoted. It's become a socially acceptable insult, in some circles (which basically means the receiver is less empathic / socially aware than thou) -- or at the very least, a thought-terminating cliché. I know there's a bunch of nice and wholesome stuff it's supposed to mean (like the sibling commenter points out); but the way it's typically bandied about in modern discourse (as an STFU signal, more or less) -- it isn't what it really means. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché