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> if you hate scooters laying around just wait until you hear about these things clogging up every road. I love whataboutism. I’m very fascinated to know how

> if you hate scooters laying around just wait until you hear about these things clogging up every road. I love whataboutism. I’m very fascinated to know how you live in such a fashion that you purchase food and other products that sustain your life that in no way utilize roadways. Or are you just virtue signaling and personally contribute to this road traffic you hate so much and is the real “problem” by purchasing things from the supply chain? Roads are made for cars, so it’s expected cars use them for legal purposes like driving. What wouldn’t be expected is if companies began littering roads with their shit products and marketing which blocked the roadways and put drivers at risk of accidents. If I saw companies creating traffic through illegal littering and marketing that obstructs the roadway, that would bother me. Side walks, running/bike paths are also made for specific purposes, those lawful purposes don’t include companies littering them with their commercial products and marketing.

dionidium 5y ago
As a meta point “whataboutism” is a very stupid concept. We obviously evaluate things by comparison to other things and by their relationship to other related issues. Cars and scooters compete for public space and are directly comparable. If you’re locked in a room with a kitten and a lion and I hear you complaining about the kitten, then it’s not “whataboutism” to explain to you that you’ve got bigger problems. Second, roads predate cars by thousands of years, so, no, they weren’t “made for cars.” Some actual roads existing today predate the cars on them by hundreds of years. Third, the supply chain argument is very lazy and easily refuted. Most of the problematic car usage in my neighborhood has nothing to do with the supply chain. We can get your products delivered without building cities primarily for individual automobile traffic. The most important detail in this discussion is that cars existed when you were born and you were raised in a society where they were normalized. Therefore, you regard them as a natural, unchangeable feature of the universe. Scooters are new, so you expect a lively debate about their use. This is the detail that informs everything about our disagreement.
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  > Cars and scooters compete for public space and are directly comparable. You seem to have a very difficult time understanding nuance. I didn’t complain about scooters, I complained about companies dumping their commercial scooters on pedestrian paths specifically for obnoxious marketing purposes. A scooter is fine if you want to own one and you don’t use it to obstruct pedestrian paths for commercial/marketing purposes. But to start dropping your commercial products and commercial marketing in the middle of paths (or roads for that matter) is the problem. You brought up roads and cars and traffic as the “bigger problem”. Now you're suggesting the roads you are talking about were not built for cars. Are the roads you brought up with all those cars and traffic not made for for vehicles? Or you are taking about vehicles clogging up ancient Roman roads? I’d like to engage you but you seem like a troll. Good luck with that.
  - dionidium 5y ago
    > I complained about companies dumping their commercial scooters on pedestrian paths specifically for obnoxious marketing purposes. When I think of obnoxious transportation marketing I think first of stuff like this: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/08/16/opinion-muscle-car-makers-market-mayhem/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/08/16/opinion-muscle-car-ma... In one Dodge Charger ad they literally show a sign that reads “share the road” impaling a tree as their car blows past at a speed that’s not legal on any road in the country you’d find that sign on. The fact that their automobiles kill and maim pedestrians and cyclists at a regular clip is a feature of their marketing campaign. It’s so preposterous and brazen that I still sort of can’t believe it exists. The automakers know their cars are used irresponsibly and they literally feature that in their marketing. I’m sorry I just can’t get upset about a scooter lying on the sidewalk by comparison.
midasuni 5y ago
The road outside my house was there on the oldest deeds I have, from 1830. Was that built for cars? What about the roads in town that were mentioned in writings in the 1400s?
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  > Was that built for cars? You tell me are cars and traffic a big problem on that road? Would it be a problem if companies started dumping their products/marketing on that road to obstruct it?
  - midasuni 5y ago
    The main problem on the road in town is parked cars obstructing it. They closed the parking spaces for covid so people could walk along it without being squished and things were far far better. Sadly they have reintroduced the ability to litter the road with your car and it’s gone back to being rubbish. I don’t go to that part of town any more.
    - throwawaycities 5y ago
      >I don’t go to that part of town any more. You specifically brought up the road in front of your house. I find your claim you don’t go to your house anymore because of cars entirely disingenuous.
      - midasuni 5y ago
        I mentioned two roads. One which doesn’t allow parking and is great (in front of my house, not designed for motor vehicles, takes about 50 cars a day), one which is town which was great when parking wasn’t allowed but is now rubbish.

dionidium 5y ago

As a meta point “whataboutism” is a very stupid concept. We obviously evaluate things by comparison to other things and by their relationship to other related issues. Cars and scooters compete for public space and are directly comparable. If you’re locked in a room with a kitten and a lion and I hear you complaining about the kitten, then it’s not “whataboutism” to explain to you that you’ve got bigger problems. Second, roads predate cars by thousands of years, so, no, they weren’t “made for cars.” Some actual roads existing today predate the cars on them by hundreds of years. Third, the supply chain argument is very lazy and easily refuted. Most of the problematic car usage in my neighborhood has nothing to do with the supply chain. We can get your products delivered without building cities primarily for individual automobile traffic. The most important detail in this discussion is that cars existed when you were born and you were raised in a society where they were normalized. Therefore, you regard them as a natural, unchangeable feature of the universe. Scooters are new, so you expect a lively debate about their use. This is the detail that informs everything about our disagreement.

throwawaycities 5y ago
> Cars and scooters compete for public space and are directly comparable. You seem to have a very difficult time understanding nuance. I didn’t complain about scooters, I complained about companies dumping their commercial scooters on pedestrian paths specifically for obnoxious marketing purposes. A scooter is fine if you want to own one and you don’t use it to obstruct pedestrian paths for commercial/marketing purposes. But to start dropping your commercial products and commercial marketing in the middle of paths (or roads for that matter) is the problem. You brought up roads and cars and traffic as the “bigger problem”. Now you're suggesting the roads you are talking about were not built for cars. Are the roads you brought up with all those cars and traffic not made for for vehicles? Or you are taking about vehicles clogging up ancient Roman roads? I’d like to engage you but you seem like a troll. Good luck with that.
- dionidium 5y ago
  > I complained about companies dumping their commercial scooters on pedestrian paths specifically for obnoxious marketing purposes. When I think of obnoxious transportation marketing I think first of stuff like this: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/08/16/opinion-muscle-car-makers-market-mayhem/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/08/16/opinion-muscle-car-ma... In one Dodge Charger ad they literally show a sign that reads “share the road” impaling a tree as their car blows past at a speed that’s not legal on any road in the country you’d find that sign on. The fact that their automobiles kill and maim pedestrians and cyclists at a regular clip is a feature of their marketing campaign. It’s so preposterous and brazen that I still sort of can’t believe it exists. The automakers know their cars are used irresponsibly and they literally feature that in their marketing. I’m sorry I just can’t get upset about a scooter lying on the sidewalk by comparison.

midasuni 5y ago

The road outside my house was there on the oldest deeds I have, from 1830. Was that built for cars? What about the roads in town that were mentioned in writings in the 1400s?

throwawaycities 5y ago
> Was that built for cars? You tell me are cars and traffic a big problem on that road? Would it be a problem if companies started dumping their products/marketing on that road to obstruct it?
- midasuni 5y ago
  The main problem on the road in town is parked cars obstructing it. They closed the parking spaces for covid so people could walk along it without being squished and things were far far better. Sadly they have reintroduced the ability to litter the road with your car and it’s gone back to being rubbish. I don’t go to that part of town any more.
  - throwawaycities 5y ago
    >I don’t go to that part of town any more. You specifically brought up the road in front of your house. I find your claim you don’t go to your house anymore because of cars entirely disingenuous.
    - midasuni 5y ago
      I mentioned two roads. One which doesn’t allow parking and is great (in front of my house, not designed for motor vehicles, takes about 50 cars a day), one which is town which was great when parking wasn’t allowed but is now rubbish.