4 ms·

Easy said than done. Capitalism is imperfect, but socialism is worse, much worse. Let the market decide, and let the welfare to help those truly in need(those

Easy said than done. Capitalism is imperfect, but socialism is worse, much worse. Let the market decide, and let the welfare to help those truly in need(those disabled or mentally ill, but not the lazy), use tax as a way to mitigate the gap. It's imperfect, but nobody has designed a perfect system yet. The government actually did its part(food stamps, free lunch, section 8 housing, no tax or low tax for low income families,etc), doing more will lead all of us to poverty(been there seen that).

rbanffy 5y ago
You imply a false dichotomy. There are numerous systems between the barely regulated capitalism of the US that pushes so many people into poverty in the richest country on the planet while enriching billionaires as if they provided a huge benefit for society, and traditional by-the-book socialism that was never implemented except in Star Trek (except it’s never mentioned). Europe has pretty much everything in the spectrum and, so far, it hasn’t led us to poverty.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
You didn't explain how Socialism is worse, much worse. It might be but you assume we know this to be a fact? Many in the U.S look envious to the social support that is offered in European countries. > and let the welfare to help those truly indeed That's more like Socialism than Capitalism, that's for sure. > use tax as a way to mitigate the gap This is Capitalism? > It's imperfect, but nobody has designed a perfect system yet. You could just as well be defending Socialism with that comment.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  Someone equated capitalism to freedom the other day and I asked which one is more free: choosing what you study so you can work and have a large and comfortable house for your family or work on what you want, knowing that your basic needs (including a house, even if not large) will always be provided for.
- synergy20 5y ago
  Since capitalism is imperfect so adding some socialism for the poor as stated is OK, going too far on the socialism side will ruin us all. This is my point. They're not black and white binary choices, keeping capitalism as the backbone is key. If you really like socialism, welcome to Venezuela.
  - cloudfifty 5y ago
    Alright, so let's try a few of points to clarify. Do you support any of the following? * Universal healthcare. * 4 or more weeks of paid vacation per year for all full-time employees (and some proportional setup for part-time). * ~6 months of paid (albeit not 100% of ones salary) parental leave per parent, per child. * Subsidized child care to make it affordable for everyone. * Government funded university tuition (student debt is only in the form of upkeep). * Employer/Government funded sick pay (at least 6 months). Because these things and more are what you're missing out on in the US. Year by year. Is it really worth it? What's the point of having a higher salary if it's just consumed by higher rents, healthcare fees etc and no time to actually enjoy the money (vacation)?
    - anamax 5y ago
      > Government funded university tuition (student debt is only in the form of upkeep). And how many people get to go? And who chooses which majors are available? If you have a pulse, you can get into a US college/university.
      - cloudfifty 5y ago
        > And how many people get to go? All who qualifies through grades or tests. > And who chooses which majors are available? The universities. > If you have a pulse, you can get into a US college/university. That doesn't seem to be the case, and certainly not without significant student debt.
        anamax 5y ago
        In other words, you tell people "no, you don't get to go to college/university". The US doesn't do that. And yes, there are free and/or very low-cost colleges in the US. (https://www.sjcc.edu/ https://www.sjcc.edu/ is under $1,500/year.) The fact that some people choose to go to schools that cost and then can't afford what they spent doesn't change that. It is interesting to look at what many of the people complaining about not being able to pay choose to study. Perhaps we should have told them no.

rbanffy 5y ago

You imply a false dichotomy. There are numerous systems between the barely regulated capitalism of the US that pushes so many people into poverty in the richest country on the planet while enriching billionaires as if they provided a huge benefit for society, and traditional by-the-book socialism that was never implemented except in Star Trek (except it’s never mentioned). Europe has pretty much everything in the spectrum and, so far, it hasn’t led us to poverty.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

You didn't explain how Socialism is worse, much worse. It might be but you assume we know this to be a fact? Many in the U.S look envious to the social support that is offered in European countries. > and let the welfare to help those truly indeed That's more like Socialism than Capitalism, that's for sure. > use tax as a way to mitigate the gap This is Capitalism? > It's imperfect, but nobody has designed a perfect system yet. You could just as well be defending Socialism with that comment.

rbanffy 5y ago
Someone equated capitalism to freedom the other day and I asked which one is more free: choosing what you study so you can work and have a large and comfortable house for your family or work on what you want, knowing that your basic needs (including a house, even if not large) will always be provided for.
synergy20 5y ago
Since capitalism is imperfect so adding some socialism for the poor as stated is OK, going too far on the socialism side will ruin us all. This is my point. They're not black and white binary choices, keeping capitalism as the backbone is key. If you really like socialism, welcome to Venezuela.
- cloudfifty 5y ago
  Alright, so let's try a few of points to clarify. Do you support any of the following? * Universal healthcare. * 4 or more weeks of paid vacation per year for all full-time employees (and some proportional setup for part-time). * ~6 months of paid (albeit not 100% of ones salary) parental leave per parent, per child. * Subsidized child care to make it affordable for everyone. * Government funded university tuition (student debt is only in the form of upkeep). * Employer/Government funded sick pay (at least 6 months). Because these things and more are what you're missing out on in the US. Year by year. Is it really worth it? What's the point of having a higher salary if it's just consumed by higher rents, healthcare fees etc and no time to actually enjoy the money (vacation)?
  - anamax 5y ago
    > Government funded university tuition (student debt is only in the form of upkeep). And how many people get to go? And who chooses which majors are available? If you have a pulse, you can get into a US college/university.
    - cloudfifty 5y ago
      > And how many people get to go? All who qualifies through grades or tests. > And who chooses which majors are available? The universities. > If you have a pulse, you can get into a US college/university. That doesn't seem to be the case, and certainly not without significant student debt.
      - anamax 5y ago
        In other words, you tell people "no, you don't get to go to college/university". The US doesn't do that. And yes, there are free and/or very low-cost colleges in the US. (https://www.sjcc.edu/ https://www.sjcc.edu/ is under $1,500/year.) The fact that some people choose to go to schools that cost and then can't afford what they spent doesn't change that. It is interesting to look at what many of the people complaining about not being able to pay choose to study. Perhaps we should have told them no.