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My point is that you distinguish it in the exact same way as you distinguish a charge from a cloned credit card, or a bank transfer with a stolen password, or c

My point is that you distinguish it in the exact same way as you distinguish a charge from a cloned credit card, or a bank transfer with a stolen password, or cash swiped out of a wallet. In all cases, the fraudulent money is used in exactly the same way as genuine use. If you figure out a bitcoin private key, that doesn't give you any more right to the money than figuring out a way to guess someone's bank password. And remediation would be the same.

endisneigh 5y ago
You're not really answering the question. It's fundamentally easier to do it with cloned credit cards, or banks because they are centralized entities dealing with individuals with verified identities. Even if you had someone's bank password, what will you do with the money? Transfer it to another bank? If so the wire will be reversed. Why? Because you can call someone and tell them to do so and an investigation will be done, but you will be presumed to be innocent first. So again, with Bitcoin, with no centralized entities involved, how can you distinguish between someone ceding their bitcoin to someone else vs. it being stolen from them?
- anamexis 5y ago
  If you wire money to a fraudulent account, it's gone forever. Unless you can track down the fraudsters for criminal charges.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    This isn't true though. Look up SWIFT Recall. Again, we're talking about Bitcoin here, not wire fraud.
    - anamexis 5y ago
      I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, but you most certainly can irrevocably lose money with wire fraud. Even many debit cards are not covered from fraud. And we are comparing Bitcoin and wire fraud.
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        OK so you basically don't have any response on how to distinguish Bitcoin being given to someone vs being stolen without centralized entities being involved, got it. I won't be responding to you anymore since you have nothing to add.
        anamexis 5y ago
        Yes, exactly like you can't distinguish wiring money to someone intentionally vs wire fraud.

endisneigh 5y ago

You're not really answering the question. It's fundamentally easier to do it with cloned credit cards, or banks because they are centralized entities dealing with individuals with verified identities. Even if you had someone's bank password, what will you do with the money? Transfer it to another bank? If so the wire will be reversed. Why? Because you can call someone and tell them to do so and an investigation will be done, but you will be presumed to be innocent first. So again, with Bitcoin, with no centralized entities involved, how can you distinguish between someone ceding their bitcoin to someone else vs. it being stolen from them?

anamexis 5y ago
If you wire money to a fraudulent account, it's gone forever. Unless you can track down the fraudsters for criminal charges.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  This isn't true though. Look up SWIFT Recall. Again, we're talking about Bitcoin here, not wire fraud.
  - anamexis 5y ago
    I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, but you most certainly can irrevocably lose money with wire fraud. Even many debit cards are not covered from fraud. And we are comparing Bitcoin and wire fraud.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      OK so you basically don't have any response on how to distinguish Bitcoin being given to someone vs being stolen without centralized entities being involved, got it. I won't be responding to you anymore since you have nothing to add.
      - anamexis 5y ago
        Yes, exactly like you can't distinguish wiring money to someone intentionally vs wire fraud.