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All of those things I listed are things I've either done, or that someone I know has done. Arguing that you need windows or a private room is ridiculous. You do

by strken 5y ago

All of those things I listed are things I've either done, or that someone I know has done. Arguing that you need windows or a private room is ridiculous. You do not need them, though they're a reasonable want that nearly everyone has. Not having a private room to sleep in didn't kill me, it doesn't kill the billions of people who do it, and it wouldn't kill you. The broader point here is that whittling away everything nice about your life to be "economically efficient" (as per the original comment I replied to) is a terrible idea unless you've got no alternative. People should have nice things, like windows and kitchens, and they should have better reasons than economic efficiency for giving them up. I don't think you or I disagree on this.

onion2k 5y ago
Needs are things that people need in order to live with dignity and respect; they are not simply "things you'd die if you didn't have."
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  You don't need dignity or respect to live.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    You should learn what it means to live. It's more than simply "being alive".
    - jjav 5y ago
      > You should learn what it means to live. It's more than simply "being alive". This goes full circle to what you were arguing against earlier. It is indeed true that humans always strive for more than minimal subsistence and this is part of living. Thus it is not illogical to have things which go beyond the bare minimum to survive. They're technically "wants", but that's what it means to live.
      - onion2k 5y ago
        My argument here is that people have needs that are more than things that are "the absolute minimum necessary for you to not die" in order to live a decent human life with dignity, but that don't extend as far as "a second kitchen". That isn't hard to understand. Everyone posting to say "but if you accept that needs are more than air and water then you must be saying a home-based cannery is essential for the human condition!" are just being idiots.

by strken 5y ago

onion2k 5y ago

Needs are things that people need in order to live with dignity and respect; they are not simply "things you'd die if you didn't have."

xboxnolifes 5y ago
You don't need dignity or respect to live.
- onion2k 5y ago
  You should learn what it means to live. It's more than simply "being alive".
  - jjav 5y ago
    > You should learn what it means to live. It's more than simply "being alive". This goes full circle to what you were arguing against earlier. It is indeed true that humans always strive for more than minimal subsistence and this is part of living. Thus it is not illogical to have things which go beyond the bare minimum to survive. They're technically "wants", but that's what it means to live.
    - onion2k 5y ago
      My argument here is that people have needs that are more than things that are "the absolute minimum necessary for you to not die" in order to live a decent human life with dignity, but that don't extend as far as "a second kitchen". That isn't hard to understand. Everyone posting to say "but if you accept that needs are more than air and water then you must be saying a home-based cannery is essential for the human condition!" are just being idiots.