3 ms·

So there are a few obvious issues - people don't want to work for low wages with no other benefit to their lives, so if they don't have to, they won't. But the

So there are a few obvious issues - people don't want to work for low wages with no other benefit to their lives, so if they don't have to, they won't. But the blame is on companies here: if you raise wages high enough and treat your employees well, someone will do the job. In order to suppress wages, we've generally kept immigration high and kept social services low. As immigration has declined and we've recently injected cash directly into the hands of the people, wages have climbed. But I think there's another elephant in the room that nobody has mentioned: the accumulation of wealth and its staying power over generations has created a large class of people that don't have to work (and have never had to). You don't have to be a billionaire to be in that class. If you inherit (or are gifted) a home, the amount of income you require to live is very low, certainly less than full time wages. If you additionally inherit money and have it modestly invested, you could easily live off that money and never work. Some of these people work, but not all, and they are quite able to take long breaks in employment during a pandemic if they choose. This class of people continues to grow every year as our methods for taxing wealth are ineffective. Frankly, assuming most of us are software devs or work for vcs - our children will probably be a part of this class of people. Some of you reading this already are. But I don't know how an economy continues with this class growing the way it has (ok, the answer is the wealth will eventually get inflated away but that will be a big problem for all of us). There's also another class of people that are perfectly happy working part time and just getting by - this group is happier working a bit but not full time, and certainly not multiple jobs. The lack of motivation is tied to the lack of advancement options for all but a few. If you didn't take one of the few high-income tracks in university, and you don't have the technical chops for software, or the physical durability for a trade, there aren't great options for you to make a lot of money.

turbinerneiter 5y ago
I think this is a good point. In the upper end, people don't need to work anymore. On the lower end, people don't see a reason to try anymore. I'm in the top 30% percent bracket of income (despite being at the beginning of my career). I save more than 30% of my income. This year, the house prices increased so fast, that the downpayment roses by more than I could save in a year. I can see people who are in the lower 30% bracket just giving up facing these numbers. What's the point? They could try all they want and work as hard they can and still not be able to make it. Might just as well do the minimum to scrape by and try to get ahold of some VR googles.
trixie_ 5y ago
No one wants to work for low wages. That hasn’t changed since before the pandemic. There is no ‘large class’ of rich people. It’s literally called the 1%. There are many high income tracks - medical, engineering, legal, financial, trades - pick one. Anyone can get a loan to finance their education. The system can always be improved, but there’s a lot of people out there who have the choice to improve themselves as well.
- grumple 5y ago
  A lot more than 1% have enough wealth to not need to work full time. The top 40% by wealth have wealth of at least 200k. Top 25% have 400k. Top 20% have 600k. These numbers are huge, but they are enough to indicate outright homw ownership at least depending on area, which is enough to make working full time unnecessary. There are places where you can own a home for under 100k as well. I addressed high income tracks already regarding the time investment and limited opportunity. Loans are not as readily available as you suggest, particularly for 7 or 8 years of education, even less so if you're older, and taking on a lifetime of debt is not wise. There's a reason med school and law school (actually most graduate and professional schools) are full of students from affluent backgrounds.
  - trixie_ 5y ago
    Unless you have no family, kids, responsibilities or retirement plan then not working is not possible below the 1%, and even then not a great idea. My point is most people not in the 1% and many in the 1% are working to maintain whatever lifestyle they have including their kids and parents which need support as well. If anything the higher someone’s net worth the more they need to work to maintain it. Life gets a lot harder as you get older. Also you don’t need an 8 year degree from an expensive school to work as a highly paid professional as your example suggests. Hell I know tons of people who have earned BS/MS degrees part time while working at from very affordable school. In summary your fantasy of a large upper class sitting around doing nothing while at the same time keeping the poor down is just that - a fantasy. Everyone is just out there trying to live their lives and get by while supporting their kids, family and parents.

turbinerneiter 5y ago

I think this is a good point. In the upper end, people don't need to work anymore. On the lower end, people don't see a reason to try anymore. I'm in the top 30% percent bracket of income (despite being at the beginning of my career). I save more than 30% of my income. This year, the house prices increased so fast, that the downpayment roses by more than I could save in a year. I can see people who are in the lower 30% bracket just giving up facing these numbers. What's the point? They could try all they want and work as hard they can and still not be able to make it. Might just as well do the minimum to scrape by and try to get ahold of some VR googles.

trixie_ 5y ago

No one wants to work for low wages. That hasn’t changed since before the pandemic. There is no ‘large class’ of rich people. It’s literally called the 1%. There are many high income tracks - medical, engineering, legal, financial, trades - pick one. Anyone can get a loan to finance their education. The system can always be improved, but there’s a lot of people out there who have the choice to improve themselves as well.

grumple 5y ago
A lot more than 1% have enough wealth to not need to work full time. The top 40% by wealth have wealth of at least 200k. Top 25% have 400k. Top 20% have 600k. These numbers are huge, but they are enough to indicate outright homw ownership at least depending on area, which is enough to make working full time unnecessary. There are places where you can own a home for under 100k as well. I addressed high income tracks already regarding the time investment and limited opportunity. Loans are not as readily available as you suggest, particularly for 7 or 8 years of education, even less so if you're older, and taking on a lifetime of debt is not wise. There's a reason med school and law school (actually most graduate and professional schools) are full of students from affluent backgrounds.
- trixie_ 5y ago
  Unless you have no family, kids, responsibilities or retirement plan then not working is not possible below the 1%, and even then not a great idea. My point is most people not in the 1% and many in the 1% are working to maintain whatever lifestyle they have including their kids and parents which need support as well. If anything the higher someone’s net worth the more they need to work to maintain it. Life gets a lot harder as you get older. Also you don’t need an 8 year degree from an expensive school to work as a highly paid professional as your example suggests. Hell I know tons of people who have earned BS/MS degrees part time while working at from very affordable school. In summary your fantasy of a large upper class sitting around doing nothing while at the same time keeping the poor down is just that - a fantasy. Everyone is just out there trying to live their lives and get by while supporting their kids, family and parents.