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Here's 2 questions for the "FIRE" crowd. 1) To stop working when you hit a certain number seems to me to be falling into the faulty logic illustrated in Freako

Here's 2 questions for the "FIRE" crowd. 1) To stop working when you hit a certain number seems to me to be falling into the faulty logic illustrated in Freakonomics -- when a taxi driver works every day towards a certain $ figure, he suffers on crappy days (keeps on driving to little benefit) when fares are just not coming, and cuts off his earnings on great days where business is pouring in like crazy. Instead, you should call it day early when the business sucks, and ride it when times are good. If you're good at what you do, aren't physically being exhausted by your work, and pulling in good money, why wouldn't you keep on working and make the most of your time + skills? Did you go through all your education and training just to hit a certain number and call it quits? 2) In some ways I don't get the "financially independent" life. Sure, you're no longer absolutely needing to have a job. But what do you do with the rest of your life? You're just retired at 50? With what to challenge / strive for? Maybe I'm just fortunate in that I don't mind working / find some fulfillment from it, and don't have a burning desire to sit around with no activities for 5 days a week. Maybe if I were smarter about it, I could be some kind of board member or something? Is that what people do? What takes the place of work?

kozd 5y ago
1) If that money isn't going to be needed, why continue to accumulate it? 2) Why would a job be necessary to have something to challenge/strive for?
mupuff1234 5y ago
"financially independent" doesn't necessarily mean you stop working, it's just that you have the flexibility to chose what to work on and who to work for.
- jcun4128 5y ago
  Yeah for me it's just peace of mind not worrying if I don't have a job or how long it takes me to get another one. I too strive for the idea of investing a lot/getting percentage back. I will always tinker on something. Also I want to sleep/wake whenever. Also variations can take lean/fat fire.
mistercow 5y ago
> But what do you do with the rest of your life? I spend virtually all of my free time and energy on side projects, and my list of side projects grows faster than I can take them on. When I retire, I’ll have no shortage of things to spend my time on.
anm89 5y ago
It only makes sense if youve got something else you want to do. Id venture almost none of the FIRE crowd end up sitting in front of a tv eating microwave dinners for 60 years because they retired. I mean maybe thats what some people want and more power to them but thats not what FIRE is about
- smileysteve 5y ago
  > end up sitting in front of a tv eating microwave dinners for 60 years because they retired. For a 21st century kick, we have superfood protein smoothies now. They're better for you, have less taste, can be consumed on the go, and are better for the environment.
- alexk307 5y ago
  Still sounds better than sitting in front of an IDE for 60 years working for someone else's bottom line.
- stocknoob 5y ago
  Also, the type of person diligent enough to save a large fraction of their income for decade(s) isn’t likely to just sit around doing nothing. They’ll just do what they want.
mathgladiator 5y ago
So, I'll speak as a recently retired principal engineer from big tech. (1) The number to reach is an inflection point where you can pivot and focus on things you don't like about work. For example, as much as I like architecting systems, I definitely don't like architecting through people which is what the job demands. A good question then is why do the climb at all, and there is a bit of disease of more in our culture. (2) Whatever you want! One of the reasons I retired was so that I could better balance time with my wife and work on my open source project: http://www.adama-lang.org/blog/retirement-going-all-in http://www.adama-lang.org/blog/retirement-going-all-in
d_burfoot 5y ago
As someone who is considering the FIRE path, I appreciated your point about the taxi driver. I have a list of big projects I want to pursue after getting out of the corporate world, but I wouldn't recommend FIRE to someone who just wants to be lazy: I don't think laziness is good for mental health.
zimzam 5y ago
> don't have a burning desire to sit around with no activities for 5 days a week. Who said anything about “no activities”? They said they wanted to retire not go to prison.
yulaow 5y ago
I have so many hobbies I could occupy (happily) maybe 10 lifetimes before getting remotely bored. Why spend the only one I have "working" for others?
- _dark_matter_ 5y ago
  As a software engineer with two kids and a wife with a more stressful job than mine, I have no hobbies anymore. I don't even work crazy hours.
  - alexk307 5y ago
    Your kids are your hobbies. Don't you want to spend more time on them?
    - boopboopbadoop 5y ago
      No, they’re not a hobby. People need happiness both in and outside of their family.
driverdan 5y ago
Those questions reflect your life more than OP's. Is your life so meaningless and boring outside work that you'd have nothing to do when you retire? If the answer is yes you should seriously re-evaluate your approach to life. At least get some hobbies!
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  At least those hobbies that I would like seriously do - like D&D, in contrast to playing video games - generally require other people. I'm not the type of person that gets any satisfaction from alone tinkering with shit in the garage as that seems to be the hobby of most people talking about hating work. So, what do I gain when I stop working? My friends still will work, and I'm just going to have 8 hours in a day when there's no one to do fun stuff.
  - andreilys 5y ago
    Find friends that are also financially independent.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      And are into D&D? I'm going to have better luck finding that half a million job.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
vkhn 5y ago
On thought #2, I'm with you. While I'm planning to retire early (thanks to software, I will have the money, and not much brain power left), I have yet to figure out what the heck I want to do, and I won't retire until I figure that out. I also think the "financially independent" life has a pretty wide definition. I don't need a job for an alarmingly long time, but couldn't retire on what I have. It still gives me enough freedom to work where I want, when I want - which is what proponents of this life talk about.
andreilys 5y ago
2) In some ways I don't get the "financially independent" life. Sure, you're no longer absolutely needing to have a job. But what do you do with the rest of your life? You're just retired at 50? With what to challenge / strive for? FI has never meant "go live on the beach and sip beer", I mean it can for some but the majority of folks I talk to have interests or career aspirations that are not economically viable. For example, volunteering full time at a non-profit, writing a book, community organizing, etc. all this takes time and can be difficult to do when you have a full-time FANG job.
stocknoob 5y ago
You’re floating on a boat in the ocean. Do you want to be in a boat that is sinking, and requires you to bail water every day, or one that is naturally buoyant? “Oh, if you don’t have to bail water to keep from drowning you’ll just sit there in the ocean not doing anything.” No. You can go where you want, without worry. “But I like bailing water, it gives me purpose, I want to do this forever!” That’s nice, I like fixing leaks, just in case.
- supernova87a 5y ago
  Interesting, but that's a particular interpretation of work, isn't it? That's it's toiling at bailing out a sinking ship? What if work is like growing a garden and the more you do the more you get?
  - stocknoob 5y ago
    Sure, it’s like growing a garden, where if you don’t grow enough you go hungry ;-). For most, work is first about survival/decent quality of life, and then life satisfaction. FI is about taking the survival element off the table, so you can pursue satisfaction at work (or elsewhere). (Put another way, people seem to argue that they prefer to stay financially _dependent_ — stay that way if you want, and hope your preferences never change.)
Zababa 5y ago
> Did you go through all your education and training just to hit a certain number and call it quits? Yes, I don't see what's so surprising about that. Most people do the same but instead of being an amount of money, it's an amount of years, or an amount of money that you will get more slowly. > In some ways I don't get the "financially independent" life. Sure, you're no longer absolutely needing to have a job. But what do you do with the rest of your life? You're just retired at 50? With what to challenge / strive for? Whatever you want, that's the point. If you want to spend all day in your bed, you can. If you want to go very deeply on one topic, you can. If you want to surf HN all day you can. If you want to give time to charities you can. You can even go back to work if you want to! > Maybe I'm just fortunate in that I don't mind working / find some fulfillment from it, and don't have a burning desire to sit around with no activities for 5 days a week. > What takes the place of work? Your comment seems to asume that working is a natural state and that you need an opposite "burning desire" to not want to work. I personally don't get much fulfillment from work. It's nice and all but I'd rather not do it. In a way it's like washing the dishes: sometimes it feels a bit good to do it, and most people need to do it, but if I can get a dishwasher, I'd rather get one and use one.

kozd 5y ago

1) If that money isn't going to be needed, why continue to accumulate it? 2) Why would a job be necessary to have something to challenge/strive for?

mupuff1234 5y ago

"financially independent" doesn't necessarily mean you stop working, it's just that you have the flexibility to chose what to work on and who to work for.

jcun4128 5y ago
Yeah for me it's just peace of mind not worrying if I don't have a job or how long it takes me to get another one. I too strive for the idea of investing a lot/getting percentage back. I will always tinker on something. Also I want to sleep/wake whenever. Also variations can take lean/fat fire.

mistercow 5y ago

> But what do you do with the rest of your life? I spend virtually all of my free time and energy on side projects, and my list of side projects grows faster than I can take them on. When I retire, I’ll have no shortage of things to spend my time on.

anm89 5y ago

It only makes sense if youve got something else you want to do. Id venture almost none of the FIRE crowd end up sitting in front of a tv eating microwave dinners for 60 years because they retired. I mean maybe thats what some people want and more power to them but thats not what FIRE is about

smileysteve 5y ago
> end up sitting in front of a tv eating microwave dinners for 60 years because they retired. For a 21st century kick, we have superfood protein smoothies now. They're better for you, have less taste, can be consumed on the go, and are better for the environment.
alexk307 5y ago
Still sounds better than sitting in front of an IDE for 60 years working for someone else's bottom line.
stocknoob 5y ago
Also, the type of person diligent enough to save a large fraction of their income for decade(s) isn’t likely to just sit around doing nothing. They’ll just do what they want.

mathgladiator 5y ago

So, I'll speak as a recently retired principal engineer from big tech. (1) The number to reach is an inflection point where you can pivot and focus on things you don't like about work. For example, as much as I like architecting systems, I definitely don't like architecting through people which is what the job demands. A good question then is why do the climb at all, and there is a bit of disease of more in our culture. (2) Whatever you want! One of the reasons I retired was so that I could better balance time with my wife and work on my open source project: http://www.adama-lang.org/blog/retirement-going-all-in http://www.adama-lang.org/blog/retirement-going-all-in

d_burfoot 5y ago

As someone who is considering the FIRE path, I appreciated your point about the taxi driver. I have a list of big projects I want to pursue after getting out of the corporate world, but I wouldn't recommend FIRE to someone who just wants to be lazy: I don't think laziness is good for mental health.

zimzam 5y ago

> don't have a burning desire to sit around with no activities for 5 days a week. Who said anything about “no activities”? They said they wanted to retire not go to prison.

yulaow 5y ago

I have so many hobbies I could occupy (happily) maybe 10 lifetimes before getting remotely bored. Why spend the only one I have "working" for others?

_dark_matter_ 5y ago
As a software engineer with two kids and a wife with a more stressful job than mine, I have no hobbies anymore. I don't even work crazy hours.
- alexk307 5y ago
  Your kids are your hobbies. Don't you want to spend more time on them?
  - boopboopbadoop 5y ago
    No, they’re not a hobby. People need happiness both in and outside of their family.

driverdan 5y ago

Those questions reflect your life more than OP's. Is your life so meaningless and boring outside work that you'd have nothing to do when you retire? If the answer is yes you should seriously re-evaluate your approach to life. At least get some hobbies!

KptMarchewa 5y ago
At least those hobbies that I would like seriously do - like D&D, in contrast to playing video games - generally require other people. I'm not the type of person that gets any satisfaction from alone tinkering with shit in the garage as that seems to be the hobby of most people talking about hating work. So, what do I gain when I stop working? My friends still will work, and I'm just going to have 8 hours in a day when there's no one to do fun stuff.
- andreilys 5y ago
  Find friends that are also financially independent.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    And are into D&D? I'm going to have better luck finding that half a million job.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

vkhn 5y ago

On thought #2, I'm with you. While I'm planning to retire early (thanks to software, I will have the money, and not much brain power left), I have yet to figure out what the heck I want to do, and I won't retire until I figure that out. I also think the "financially independent" life has a pretty wide definition. I don't need a job for an alarmingly long time, but couldn't retire on what I have. It still gives me enough freedom to work where I want, when I want - which is what proponents of this life talk about.

andreilys 5y ago

2) In some ways I don't get the "financially independent" life. Sure, you're no longer absolutely needing to have a job. But what do you do with the rest of your life? You're just retired at 50? With what to challenge / strive for? FI has never meant "go live on the beach and sip beer", I mean it can for some but the majority of folks I talk to have interests or career aspirations that are not economically viable. For example, volunteering full time at a non-profit, writing a book, community organizing, etc. all this takes time and can be difficult to do when you have a full-time FANG job.

stocknoob 5y ago

You’re floating on a boat in the ocean. Do you want to be in a boat that is sinking, and requires you to bail water every day, or one that is naturally buoyant? “Oh, if you don’t have to bail water to keep from drowning you’ll just sit there in the ocean not doing anything.” No. You can go where you want, without worry. “But I like bailing water, it gives me purpose, I want to do this forever!” That’s nice, I like fixing leaks, just in case.

supernova87a 5y ago
Interesting, but that's a particular interpretation of work, isn't it? That's it's toiling at bailing out a sinking ship? What if work is like growing a garden and the more you do the more you get?
- stocknoob 5y ago
  Sure, it’s like growing a garden, where if you don’t grow enough you go hungry ;-). For most, work is first about survival/decent quality of life, and then life satisfaction. FI is about taking the survival element off the table, so you can pursue satisfaction at work (or elsewhere). (Put another way, people seem to argue that they prefer to stay financially _dependent_ — stay that way if you want, and hope your preferences never change.)

Zababa 5y ago

> Did you go through all your education and training just to hit a certain number and call it quits? Yes, I don't see what's so surprising about that. Most people do the same but instead of being an amount of money, it's an amount of years, or an amount of money that you will get more slowly. > In some ways I don't get the "financially independent" life. Sure, you're no longer absolutely needing to have a job. But what do you do with the rest of your life? You're just retired at 50? With what to challenge / strive for? Whatever you want, that's the point. If you want to spend all day in your bed, you can. If you want to go very deeply on one topic, you can. If you want to surf HN all day you can. If you want to give time to charities you can. You can even go back to work if you want to! > Maybe I'm just fortunate in that I don't mind working / find some fulfillment from it, and don't have a burning desire to sit around with no activities for 5 days a week. > What takes the place of work? Your comment seems to asume that working is a natural state and that you need an opposite "burning desire" to not want to work. I personally don't get much fulfillment from work. It's nice and all but I'd rather not do it. In a way it's like washing the dishes: sometimes it feels a bit good to do it, and most people need to do it, but if I can get a dishwasher, I'd rather get one and use one.