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You should reconsider your worth and attempt to re-negotiate pay. I started out 6-7 years ago at £30k and am now at £100k + options (worthless). Have only ever

You should reconsider your worth and attempt to re-negotiate pay. I started out 6-7 years ago at £30k and am now at £100k + options (worthless). Have only ever worked at startups. You can 1.5x that easily at a big tech (some FAANG jobs exist in London).

dogma1138 5y ago
You then end up paying London rent… You won’t be able to afford to rent a luxury London flat on 100K or even 150K but a 2 bed in any decent area is £2-2.5K council tax and utilities would be another £200 p/m easily. You are probably better off making £80K in Manchester as a senior dev than £100-110K in London. Newcastle has also a decent tech ecosystem tho it is very much focused around Sage.
- switch007 5y ago
  What companies pay £80k in Manc? (Not denying it, genuinely curious which sector/companies etc)
- Sholmesy 5y ago
  Maybe. We own our flat in Zone 1 (Soho, 48k down payment, 12k closing costs) after 5 years saving, mortgage is 2.29% ~ 1900 a month. Save about 2500 a month. The one thing I will say is that the "single tax" certainly exists in London, and I find my situation affordable because I have no kids, and my partner brings in an other £35k or so. If we wanted a 3 bedroom or something, forget about it. That's when it becomes absurd to live in central and totally prohibitive. Also, my experience with London companies + recruiters in the last 3 months has been that permanant remote roles have been cropping up. I would say its about 50/50 of whether a job requires any on prem time, and about 90/10 that the job requires 1-2 days a week on prem.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    What flat did you buy in Soho for 480K assuming that it was a 10% deposit, or a better question would be when…
    - Sholmesy 5y ago
      I've said way too much PII already, but it's on HMRC/Land Registry if you want to look it up. Bought in 2019. Non-council.
      - dogma1138 5y ago
        For a 2019 purchase there is no way that’s more than a studio maybe maybe a tiny 1 bed, if I want to buy where I rent now (W2) I’m looking at 1M+ for any two bed that isn’t a 50sq/m lower ground closet, the non council is a given I don’t think there are any council properties in Soho… The 2 bed flat I’m renting got recently evaluated at 1.7M it’s very nice and very large (for London)but the lease remaining on it is 68 years and the Victorian building it sits in would need a lot of work very very soon so the buyers are looking at 350-400K bill within a few years of buying the flat (leasehold renewal and building repairs) on top of that which also is why the current landlord is looking to sell. As it stands now if you want to buy a property for £600K you are looking at £60K deposit, £20K stamp duty and probably another £20K for misc costs. £600K is a below what an average new build in a Zone 3 would cost you these days outside of the few units they reserve for HTB. If you can save £3K a month you’re looking at 3 years of saving. Since most people / couples would struggle to save even £1K a month especially in their early careers they are probably looking at a decade of saving for a property or even more if the house prices keep on rising as fast as they are now.
        vr46 5y ago
        I stayed at my ex's flat in W2 around twenty years ago, the estate was selling 2-beds for 240K then - are you suggesting those flats are over £1M?? I dare not look at prices. Edit: Reader, he looked at the prices Found almost identical flat at 499,999K, so coming in at less than Millbank flats were going for in 2016. Those flats are only £25K more now. This seems perfectly doable for software engineers who have a good permanent job or are contracting.
        dogma1138 5y ago
        Which site are you looking at? The only flats in my area around 600K all have a huge asterisk the leasehold on them is about to expire so you can only buy them in cash. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114810275 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114810275 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109851434 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109851434
  - vr46 5y ago
    We lived in NW1, W1H and SW1 for fifteen years and it was totally doable with two earners even starting on a perm salary of 35K, and as the income increased we stayed, but within three years of kids arriving, it was clear that we needed to make a choice. Stay with a two-bedroom in Zone 1 - and pollution etc - or jet to Zone 4 and triple our space. Five years later I think it's more feasible to stay in Zone 1 or 2 with kids as the air becomes cleaner and you should have saved up enough to find a bigger place. A friend travels from Zone 1 to 4 every on the train for the school run, so it's perfectly doable given flexible working.
    - Sholmesy 5y ago
      Totally agree re; kids and air pollution etc, it's getting better every year. The $$$ is the problem. 3 bedroom in Zone 1 is 1.5-2m
      - vr46 5y ago
        I see what you mean, five years ago there were still affordable three-bed flats in SW1P and W2, but those days are over.
- cutler 5y ago
  It's the other way round. The London wage differential is much higher than the rent differential outside London.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    Not any more I’m on £150K base and total cash comp of around £200K with bonus, car allowance and some other perks. Whilst it’s true that I probably won’t find a pay like this outside of London it’s also quite hard to get it within London if I lose my job it’s more likely that I’ll have to take a pay cut than not. In fact once you get to 6 figures in the UK outside of contracting it’s not uncommon to essentially bounce up and down by as much as 30% between jobs. Looking at the more median salaries especially post COVID the pay gap has shrunk considerably. Finance/Fintech is still very much London centric and those places pay the most in uk tech outside some senior FAANG roles but not everyone is lucky enough to land those. It’s even not about being good or asking for more it’s really about just landing a job with an employer that is able and willing to pay that much and being able to justify that to them and it’s not as easy as it seems to be in SV. In fact just before the pandemic I was looking to make a move and I went to a few recruiters and their honest advice was pretty much stay where I was (less than what I get now but 20% (5/15 split) pension and very very good benefits). I did managed to move in early 2020 to my current role but that was through my network. Overall considering it the loss of pension I probably came out even it was more of wanting to do something new in a different setting than the pay.
    - Sholmesy 5y ago
      That's really good comp for the UK. Well done! Do you mind me asking what industry you're in?
      - dogma1138 5y ago
        Data science, before that was finance.
- 946789987649 5y ago
  I bought a 2 bed (750 sq ft) plus a large south-facing balcony (with a nice view) in E1 on less than £100k. Not to mention the salary ceiling is so huge in London it's easy to be saving more than someone else is earning in another city.

dogma1138 5y ago

You then end up paying London rent… You won’t be able to afford to rent a luxury London flat on 100K or even 150K but a 2 bed in any decent area is £2-2.5K council tax and utilities would be another £200 p/m easily. You are probably better off making £80K in Manchester as a senior dev than £100-110K in London. Newcastle has also a decent tech ecosystem tho it is very much focused around Sage.

switch007 5y ago
What companies pay £80k in Manc? (Not denying it, genuinely curious which sector/companies etc)
Sholmesy 5y ago
Maybe. We own our flat in Zone 1 (Soho, 48k down payment, 12k closing costs) after 5 years saving, mortgage is 2.29% ~ 1900 a month. Save about 2500 a month. The one thing I will say is that the "single tax" certainly exists in London, and I find my situation affordable because I have no kids, and my partner brings in an other £35k or so. If we wanted a 3 bedroom or something, forget about it. That's when it becomes absurd to live in central and totally prohibitive. Also, my experience with London companies + recruiters in the last 3 months has been that permanant remote roles have been cropping up. I would say its about 50/50 of whether a job requires any on prem time, and about 90/10 that the job requires 1-2 days a week on prem.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  What flat did you buy in Soho for 480K assuming that it was a 10% deposit, or a better question would be when…
  - Sholmesy 5y ago
    I've said way too much PII already, but it's on HMRC/Land Registry if you want to look it up. Bought in 2019. Non-council.
    - dogma1138 5y ago
      For a 2019 purchase there is no way that’s more than a studio maybe maybe a tiny 1 bed, if I want to buy where I rent now (W2) I’m looking at 1M+ for any two bed that isn’t a 50sq/m lower ground closet, the non council is a given I don’t think there are any council properties in Soho… The 2 bed flat I’m renting got recently evaluated at 1.7M it’s very nice and very large (for London)but the lease remaining on it is 68 years and the Victorian building it sits in would need a lot of work very very soon so the buyers are looking at 350-400K bill within a few years of buying the flat (leasehold renewal and building repairs) on top of that which also is why the current landlord is looking to sell. As it stands now if you want to buy a property for £600K you are looking at £60K deposit, £20K stamp duty and probably another £20K for misc costs. £600K is a below what an average new build in a Zone 3 would cost you these days outside of the few units they reserve for HTB. If you can save £3K a month you’re looking at 3 years of saving. Since most people / couples would struggle to save even £1K a month especially in their early careers they are probably looking at a decade of saving for a property or even more if the house prices keep on rising as fast as they are now.
      - vr46 5y ago
        I stayed at my ex's flat in W2 around twenty years ago, the estate was selling 2-beds for 240K then - are you suggesting those flats are over £1M?? I dare not look at prices. Edit: Reader, he looked at the prices Found almost identical flat at 499,999K, so coming in at less than Millbank flats were going for in 2016. Those flats are only £25K more now. This seems perfectly doable for software engineers who have a good permanent job or are contracting.
        dogma1138 5y ago
        Which site are you looking at? The only flats in my area around 600K all have a huge asterisk the leasehold on them is about to expire so you can only buy them in cash. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114810275 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114810275 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109851434 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109851434
- vr46 5y ago
  We lived in NW1, W1H and SW1 for fifteen years and it was totally doable with two earners even starting on a perm salary of 35K, and as the income increased we stayed, but within three years of kids arriving, it was clear that we needed to make a choice. Stay with a two-bedroom in Zone 1 - and pollution etc - or jet to Zone 4 and triple our space. Five years later I think it's more feasible to stay in Zone 1 or 2 with kids as the air becomes cleaner and you should have saved up enough to find a bigger place. A friend travels from Zone 1 to 4 every on the train for the school run, so it's perfectly doable given flexible working.
  - Sholmesy 5y ago
    Totally agree re; kids and air pollution etc, it's getting better every year. The $$$ is the problem. 3 bedroom in Zone 1 is 1.5-2m
    - vr46 5y ago
      I see what you mean, five years ago there were still affordable three-bed flats in SW1P and W2, but those days are over.
cutler 5y ago
It's the other way round. The London wage differential is much higher than the rent differential outside London.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  Not any more I’m on £150K base and total cash comp of around £200K with bonus, car allowance and some other perks. Whilst it’s true that I probably won’t find a pay like this outside of London it’s also quite hard to get it within London if I lose my job it’s more likely that I’ll have to take a pay cut than not. In fact once you get to 6 figures in the UK outside of contracting it’s not uncommon to essentially bounce up and down by as much as 30% between jobs. Looking at the more median salaries especially post COVID the pay gap has shrunk considerably. Finance/Fintech is still very much London centric and those places pay the most in uk tech outside some senior FAANG roles but not everyone is lucky enough to land those. It’s even not about being good or asking for more it’s really about just landing a job with an employer that is able and willing to pay that much and being able to justify that to them and it’s not as easy as it seems to be in SV. In fact just before the pandemic I was looking to make a move and I went to a few recruiters and their honest advice was pretty much stay where I was (less than what I get now but 20% (5/15 split) pension and very very good benefits). I did managed to move in early 2020 to my current role but that was through my network. Overall considering it the loss of pension I probably came out even it was more of wanting to do something new in a different setting than the pay.
  - Sholmesy 5y ago
    That's really good comp for the UK. Well done! Do you mind me asking what industry you're in?
    - dogma1138 5y ago
      Data science, before that was finance.
946789987649 5y ago
I bought a 2 bed (750 sq ft) plus a large south-facing balcony (with a nice view) in E1 on less than £100k. Not to mention the salary ceiling is so huge in London it's easy to be saving more than someone else is earning in another city.