7 ms·

I started out at £21k and in 10 years haven’t reached the author’s starting salary! The real advice should be for everyone to relocate to the US

unbanned 5y ago
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  There are some really nice places in the states - although SF or NY are not one of them... Saying that, I'd rather live in NY than London.
  - asdadsdad 5y ago
    I'd take London anytime over NYC
tluyben2 5y ago
You can do a lot of it without moving to the US or working as a small but niche consultancy outfit (I get 200+ euro/hour from and in the eu); wfh for a US company, as a company in a cheap EU country that has favorable tax for companies. Then optimize. For instance, a UK company can deduct a lot of things especially work from home, you just need to optimize for them. Works fine for programmers at least. I do not think people who 'work jobs' know how much they can optimize their position; which is comparable to the US in rights really in many EU countries.
- nickkell 5y ago
  That’s part of the issue, with consulting you’re forced to act and think like a company rather than an employee. It requires more research or hiring professional advisors. There’s potential tax benefits, but also corresponding legislation to ensure you and your clients aren’t dodging social security contributions. I’m sure once you have some experience it’s simple, but from the outside looking in, it seems slightly risky.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Well here in the EU you can have jobs with almost 0 risk but less than US money, or a bit of risk (which you would also have in the US; easy to fire people there I think?) and make US money with Healthcare etc intact even if you lose a client. No more stupid interviews (they are hiring a company, not a person; I never had to do one because of that) and you have a safety net in the EU whatever happens anyway... Maybe I should write something about it as I have been doing it for 30+ years.
    - nickkell 5y ago
      Feel free to drop a link to your website
Sholmesy 5y ago
You should reconsider your worth and attempt to re-negotiate pay. I started out 6-7 years ago at £30k and am now at £100k + options (worthless). Have only ever worked at startups. You can 1.5x that easily at a big tech (some FAANG jobs exist in London).
- dogma1138 5y ago
  You then end up paying London rent… You won’t be able to afford to rent a luxury London flat on 100K or even 150K but a 2 bed in any decent area is £2-2.5K council tax and utilities would be another £200 p/m easily. You are probably better off making £80K in Manchester as a senior dev than £100-110K in London. Newcastle has also a decent tech ecosystem tho it is very much focused around Sage.
  - switch007 5y ago
    What companies pay £80k in Manc? (Not denying it, genuinely curious which sector/companies etc)
  - Sholmesy 5y ago
    Maybe. We own our flat in Zone 1 (Soho, 48k down payment, 12k closing costs) after 5 years saving, mortgage is 2.29% ~ 1900 a month. Save about 2500 a month. The one thing I will say is that the "single tax" certainly exists in London, and I find my situation affordable because I have no kids, and my partner brings in an other £35k or so. If we wanted a 3 bedroom or something, forget about it. That's when it becomes absurd to live in central and totally prohibitive. Also, my experience with London companies + recruiters in the last 3 months has been that permanant remote roles have been cropping up. I would say its about 50/50 of whether a job requires any on prem time, and about 90/10 that the job requires 1-2 days a week on prem.
    - dogma1138 5y ago
      What flat did you buy in Soho for 480K assuming that it was a 10% deposit, or a better question would be when…
CodeGlitch 5y ago
Came here to say exactly the same thing (although it was more like £19k as it was the games industry).
300bps 5y ago
At my last company we hired new computer science graduates at more than $100k per year. A friend of mine has a son that just got a job offer right out of a medium tier computer science school with total compensations more than $200k per year.

unbanned 5y ago

CodeGlitch 5y ago
There are some really nice places in the states - although SF or NY are not one of them... Saying that, I'd rather live in NY than London.
- asdadsdad 5y ago
  I'd take London anytime over NYC

tluyben2 5y ago

You can do a lot of it without moving to the US or working as a small but niche consultancy outfit (I get 200+ euro/hour from and in the eu); wfh for a US company, as a company in a cheap EU country that has favorable tax for companies. Then optimize. For instance, a UK company can deduct a lot of things especially work from home, you just need to optimize for them. Works fine for programmers at least. I do not think people who 'work jobs' know how much they can optimize their position; which is comparable to the US in rights really in many EU countries.

nickkell 5y ago
That’s part of the issue, with consulting you’re forced to act and think like a company rather than an employee. It requires more research or hiring professional advisors. There’s potential tax benefits, but also corresponding legislation to ensure you and your clients aren’t dodging social security contributions. I’m sure once you have some experience it’s simple, but from the outside looking in, it seems slightly risky.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Well here in the EU you can have jobs with almost 0 risk but less than US money, or a bit of risk (which you would also have in the US; easy to fire people there I think?) and make US money with Healthcare etc intact even if you lose a client. No more stupid interviews (they are hiring a company, not a person; I never had to do one because of that) and you have a safety net in the EU whatever happens anyway... Maybe I should write something about it as I have been doing it for 30+ years.
  - nickkell 5y ago
    Feel free to drop a link to your website

Sholmesy 5y ago

You should reconsider your worth and attempt to re-negotiate pay. I started out 6-7 years ago at £30k and am now at £100k + options (worthless). Have only ever worked at startups. You can 1.5x that easily at a big tech (some FAANG jobs exist in London).

dogma1138 5y ago
You then end up paying London rent… You won’t be able to afford to rent a luxury London flat on 100K or even 150K but a 2 bed in any decent area is £2-2.5K council tax and utilities would be another £200 p/m easily. You are probably better off making £80K in Manchester as a senior dev than £100-110K in London. Newcastle has also a decent tech ecosystem tho it is very much focused around Sage.
- switch007 5y ago
  What companies pay £80k in Manc? (Not denying it, genuinely curious which sector/companies etc)
- Sholmesy 5y ago
  Maybe. We own our flat in Zone 1 (Soho, 48k down payment, 12k closing costs) after 5 years saving, mortgage is 2.29% ~ 1900 a month. Save about 2500 a month. The one thing I will say is that the "single tax" certainly exists in London, and I find my situation affordable because I have no kids, and my partner brings in an other £35k or so. If we wanted a 3 bedroom or something, forget about it. That's when it becomes absurd to live in central and totally prohibitive. Also, my experience with London companies + recruiters in the last 3 months has been that permanant remote roles have been cropping up. I would say its about 50/50 of whether a job requires any on prem time, and about 90/10 that the job requires 1-2 days a week on prem.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    What flat did you buy in Soho for 480K assuming that it was a 10% deposit, or a better question would be when…

CodeGlitch 5y ago

Came here to say exactly the same thing (although it was more like £19k as it was the games industry).

300bps 5y ago

At my last company we hired new computer science graduates at more than $100k per year. A friend of mine has a son that just got a job offer right out of a medium tier computer science school with total compensations more than $200k per year.