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I do not know if you ever lived under dictatorship but the most popular argument of dictatorship is 'There are Nuances' , 'Be wise, nothing is absolute' and 'Fr

I do not know if you ever lived under dictatorship but the most popular argument of dictatorship is 'There are Nuances' , 'Be wise, nothing is absolute' and 'Freedom is not the answer'. I would not wish to blame you for anything because I value your efforts and the worst thing I could assume: it's your honest mistake. Of course nothing is absolute but it doesn't mean that we should be that wise to miss the main point with all nuances and be fooled like idiots to accept things that should never be acceptable. Nuances do matter but only after the main thing is defined and protected. I am sorry but in that case with all your expertise knowledge and nuances you seem to miss the main thing which is a tendency to close every platform and make it controlled remotely or brick it otherwise stripping the owner from the computer respecting freedom completely. Apple computers were able to boot from the usb now they don't. I am aware about nuances but you cannot boot in DFU something other then their thing unless they permit it, isnt' it? Could they do it differently? I presume yes. They choose it to be exactly this way and they choose it to be this way just to keep control because they perfectly know where line is . They keep the very control they could and should give to the owner if he chooses so but they didn't and they didn't because the whole tendency is to make people slowly accept the idea of closed/remotely controlled platform. Their iphone/ipads are closed completely just because they have found a way to make it acceptable by people. They can't do it with Macs ... for now. They are not idiots and they understand that if they close Macs today they will meet strong opposition with the chance that people would reject to use it completely. And they made a lot of efforts using 'nuances' tactics to make sure that one who wish to fool himself would find a way to do it by saying - look it is not perfect but they are trying to keep it open and there are nuances. Nevertheless they have managed to push things that never perceived as the norm like phoning home for some parameters, this 'secure' (for them) bootloader that owner doesn't have a choice to turn off or this DFU requiring another Mac to boot. What the F is that? Why can't I boot from usb without other Mac? Why there should be some hacking to achieve something like that? Could they do it differently? Of course they could but they didn't and they didn't on purpose because 'frog boiling' is in progress. >But that's a repairability/longevity argument; while the thing has a proper bootloader installed, it isn't phoning home anywhere during normal operation. Today, what about tomorrow? >Can Apple sell me a backdoored M1? Yes. But the entire point of their design is that nobody else can backdoor it for me. Not even you, if you get ahold of it. Their user-controlled secureboot delegation requires authenticating using your machine owner credentials to install your own kernel, after having asserted physical presence, unless you wipe the whole machine and start fresh. And even then you can't backdoor the recovery mode used to do this, so you couldn't backdoor someone using the Asahi Linux installer since it runs from that secure recovery. Their design is such that compromised third party chips can't compromise the main system. You can't backdoor the motherboard and replace the flash. Etc. You have to trust Apple to an extent, My concerns about third party in general and third party chips are much less then my concerns about Apple itself. Why should one afraid third party less then Apple? What is the difference? Apple as far as I am concerned IS third party as much as another third party is because they can communicate between them and they do such things and Apple is known to accept shit from dictatorships. "You have to trust Apple to an extent" NO, I do not have to. We do not have to. They should be obligated to deliver something that doesn't require that after their product is shipped. We should demand from suppliers to supply something that doesn't require their control and it should be illegal if they introduce something like that.Only then they could be potentially "trusted" to the certain extent. >Can you build a signing and key storage facility on par with the security of Apple's? Highly unlikely. So yes, you might have full control over the device, but you're getting less security against other attackers as a result. What if I prefer that and not some 'big daddy' caring about my safety more then I do? Freedom does matter and it IS the answer and it comes with responsibility. THIS is the main issue here. THIS is what separates society with responsible citizens from the society with 'naive children' who wish to trade their freedom for 'safety' resulting in loosing both.

deleted 5y ago
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marcan_42 5y ago
I had typed up a full point by point reply, but honestly, > naive children If you're going to end with ad hominem attacks, you don't deserve it. You've made it clear to everyone here what kind of person you are, and I shouldn't be wasting my time replying. (Also, your comment history suggests you own an M1 Air since you were commenting about PWM flicker and QEMU VMs... so maybe check out a mirror before insulting people who choose to buy these machines)
- lovelyviking 5y ago
  It was never my intention to insult anyone and especially I didn't intend to insult you specifically and if it sounded like that I am really sorry and regret it.I was trying to say it figuratively. In general. I read carefully what you say and agree with you on some points. English isn't my first language and may be my attempt to use figurative speech went too far because the intention was to merely describe tendency of avoiding certain level of responsibility by some people and that tendency is something I do not like in general. Nothing more. Of course I do not wish to claim that some one who bought some machine immediately become 'naive children' and I understand that one can deal only so much with the machine and it's problems when real work needs to be done. And as you've noted I by myself had to buy M1 because I write missing file manager for it . I see no absolutism in my position as I claim what I like and try to get as close to that as possible. If you go even deeper into my past comments you will not need to suggest anything because you will find detailed description of all problems I had with M1 and the other Mac model before it. I am not hiding it nor consider it an insult to have one. I am trying to call things for what they really are to my best knowledge but it is not my intention to insult you or someone who have bought M1 or any other machine for that matter. I am sorry if it sounded for you this way. >If you're going to end with ad hominem attacks, you don't deserve it. No I am not going to end with any attacks. I am trying to avoid any attacks and trying to argue for the topic in general. This is my internal guideline and if by some reason I did deviate from it I apologize because this is not my intention. > you don't deserve it. You've made it clear to everyone here what kind of person you are, and I shouldn't be wasting my time replying. Who deserves what in your perspective of the world it is of course for you to decide for yourself. Still, with all respect, I think you went there too much personal and I think it would be certain exaggeration to suggest that you can know what kind of person I am and I do not understand what makes you think you are entitled to speak for others here. What kind of person I am or not doesn't really even matter here. When you answer me you are not only answering to me personally. It is the general point that matter so consider sharing something you already typed for the sake of others if my apology wasn't enough. As to your criticism I am not perfect and make mistakes but I do check my mirror constantly so I hope we can avoid certain 'too early' conclusions that might be incorrect. If there are things other then those two words please point to them in a respectful manner. You've suggested that my position is an absolutist position and I do not see absolutism in it. You have baby or you don't. If they control computer then they do. Nuances come after that. How much of it you accept for the moment is a separate question. I never been accused for absolutism before. I do not know why you suggest it as you can well see it by yourself that I do compromise and buy something like M1 because at the moment according even to your point it might be not the worse compromise. So perhaps suggestion of absolutism for simple wish to have own computer under own control is misplaced. In general I simply wish computer that I fully control . I do not need 'safety' provided by someone unfamiliar to me and I wish to avoid situation where I have to choose only between bad options non of which deliver what I need. I hope you can see some logic behind this point. I have nothing to do with FSF by the way so please take it into account because it's also incorrect to put me in the same camp with them (at least so far). I share some of their views just as I can share some of your views when they are well grounded. For instance if you claim that FSF standards for the hardware aren't enough nor consistent I can see your point. It's hard to say you are correct or not it still needs some thinking about it and this is what it's all about. To hear the point and to think about it. I have nothing against you personally. If I wish to insult or attack I do it with very different tone and then it's hard to confuse with something else so there is no need to look for insults in other places when I am simply trying to express certain point of view as clear as I can.I hope I didn't waste my time explaining all of this to you. With all that said and understanding your emotion I apologize for those two words if they delivered wrong message. Still I think staying on the subject and delivering your points was more important than getting personal and showing disrespect. I hope you can come back to the points and put personal things and some incorrect suggestions aside.

deleted 5y ago

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marcan_42 5y ago

I had typed up a full point by point reply, but honestly, > naive children If you're going to end with ad hominem attacks, you don't deserve it. You've made it clear to everyone here what kind of person you are, and I shouldn't be wasting my time replying. (Also, your comment history suggests you own an M1 Air since you were commenting about PWM flicker and QEMU VMs... so maybe check out a mirror before insulting people who choose to buy these machines)

lovelyviking 5y ago
It was never my intention to insult anyone and especially I didn't intend to insult you specifically and if it sounded like that I am really sorry and regret it.I was trying to say it figuratively. In general. I read carefully what you say and agree with you on some points. English isn't my first language and may be my attempt to use figurative speech went too far because the intention was to merely describe tendency of avoiding certain level of responsibility by some people and that tendency is something I do not like in general. Nothing more. Of course I do not wish to claim that some one who bought some machine immediately become 'naive children' and I understand that one can deal only so much with the machine and it's problems when real work needs to be done. And as you've noted I by myself had to buy M1 because I write missing file manager for it . I see no absolutism in my position as I claim what I like and try to get as close to that as possible. If you go even deeper into my past comments you will not need to suggest anything because you will find detailed description of all problems I had with M1 and the other Mac model before it. I am not hiding it nor consider it an insult to have one. I am trying to call things for what they really are to my best knowledge but it is not my intention to insult you or someone who have bought M1 or any other machine for that matter. I am sorry if it sounded for you this way. >If you're going to end with ad hominem attacks, you don't deserve it. No I am not going to end with any attacks. I am trying to avoid any attacks and trying to argue for the topic in general. This is my internal guideline and if by some reason I did deviate from it I apologize because this is not my intention. > you don't deserve it. You've made it clear to everyone here what kind of person you are, and I shouldn't be wasting my time replying. Who deserves what in your perspective of the world it is of course for you to decide for yourself. Still, with all respect, I think you went there too much personal and I think it would be certain exaggeration to suggest that you can know what kind of person I am and I do not understand what makes you think you are entitled to speak for others here. What kind of person I am or not doesn't really even matter here. When you answer me you are not only answering to me personally. It is the general point that matter so consider sharing something you already typed for the sake of others if my apology wasn't enough. As to your criticism I am not perfect and make mistakes but I do check my mirror constantly so I hope we can avoid certain 'too early' conclusions that might be incorrect. If there are things other then those two words please point to them in a respectful manner. You've suggested that my position is an absolutist position and I do not see absolutism in it. You have baby or you don't. If they control computer then they do. Nuances come after that. How much of it you accept for the moment is a separate question. I never been accused for absolutism before. I do not know why you suggest it as you can well see it by yourself that I do compromise and buy something like M1 because at the moment according even to your point it might be not the worse compromise. So perhaps suggestion of absolutism for simple wish to have own computer under own control is misplaced. In general I simply wish computer that I fully control . I do not need 'safety' provided by someone unfamiliar to me and I wish to avoid situation where I have to choose only between bad options non of which deliver what I need. I hope you can see some logic behind this point. I have nothing to do with FSF by the way so please take it into account because it's also incorrect to put me in the same camp with them (at least so far). I share some of their views just as I can share some of your views when they are well grounded. For instance if you claim that FSF standards for the hardware aren't enough nor consistent I can see your point. It's hard to say you are correct or not it still needs some thinking about it and this is what it's all about. To hear the point and to think about it. I have nothing against you personally. If I wish to insult or attack I do it with very different tone and then it's hard to confuse with something else so there is no need to look for insults in other places when I am simply trying to express certain point of view as clear as I can.I hope I didn't waste my time explaining all of this to you. With all that said and understanding your emotion I apologize for those two words if they delivered wrong message. Still I think staying on the subject and delivering your points was more important than getting personal and showing disrespect. I hope you can come back to the points and put personal things and some incorrect suggestions aside.