4 ms·

What’s the problem with getting vaccinated and wearing a mask?

by vaxxz 5y ago

colechristensen 5y ago
Some people turned masks and vaccines into moral absolutes which built up the opportunity for people in the business of selling attention to make money by claiming the opposite and other people who sell attention to oppose them. This all leads to side picking and a good old ideological battleground which is just a very attractive thing for humans. So the problem with masks and vaccines is that it is quite profitable for people to turn it into a battleground and not so much to help people understand risks and rewards of various strategies and choose their own risks. Not to mention the huge sense of satisfaction many humans get from being “right” and letting everyone know how right they are. The more you exaggerate and the harder you squeeze, the more opposition you get. The conclusion that comes from this is apparently that more exaggeration and authoritarianism is the solution.
- klipklop 5y ago
  I totally agree with this. I feel the more bullshit that gets piled on top the more I naturally just want to stubbornly resist. Even if it’s against my best interests. Sometimes I wonder if a certain subset of the population is just naturally like this. The more authority applied the more people resist, even if they intended to do the action they authoritarian insists they do to begin with. If you tell me to do something my automatic reaction is to say no. Childish I guess and find myself having to evaluate why I have this impulse from time to time. One has to wonder if the media/social media shut the fuck up about the vaccines/mask arguments compliance rates would be actually higher…
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    In other words “reverse psychology works”. I don’t think very many people are actually trying to harm others by exaggerating about covid issues, but the results are the same. If you find yourself in the position of stubbornly refusing to do what people insist you do, the good thought process is realizing they aren’t the boss of you whether you’re making your choices to go along or against what they want. If you do exactly the opposite of everything someone wants you to do, they’re still controlling you.
  - vaxxz 5y ago
    - dang 5y ago
      We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments. Not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- boppo1 5y ago
  Excellent summary. I'm double-vaxxed and generally wear a mask. My social circle (work/ friends/family) is the upper-middle-class liberal set. My life is pretty set with this group of people and I'm not throwing anyone out of it over covid-opinion silliness. However I'm routinely disgusted by their self satisfaction on this topic. An exchange I heard yesterday between two people close to me, spoken with no irony: Q: "Why won't people just get the vaccine?" A: "Fear of Democrats." Back in 2020 when this was all new, I encouraged them to wear masks while shopping, because that's what I saw people in asian countries doing and figured it wasn't unreasonable. They wanted none of it! Them: "The CDC says we shouldn't wear masks." Me: "Fuck the CDC! They don't know what's going on any better than we do. Wear masks, they will probably help" Now, they conveniently have no memory of that exchange and regularly evaluate others on whether or not they're properly 'masking'. After all the BS around this, I don't at all begrudge people their choice to not get vaccinated, even though I recognize that is probably responsible for hospitals hitting capacity.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    IMO the way to avoid being resentful to an arbitrary half of people is to continue distancing yourself from the herd until you're at odds with most everyone. From my perspective, people who don't wear masks AND people who continue to wear ersatz surgical masks are all ignorant. Since this ends up being 97% of the population, I obviously cannot carry this opinion prominently. I just wear my own functional respirator in public, quietly model them as the petri dish they are, and deflect their questions with empathizable breadcrumbs.
    - boppo1 5y ago
      >functional respirator What do you use? N95?
      - mindslight 5y ago
        Half face silicone (3M 7503) with P100 filters (#2297). When/where masks are mandated, I disable the valve functionality by removing all the check valve flaps and sealing up the output with gaff tape. When they're not, I wear a second one without that mod because breathing is much easier. I'm aware this isn't perfect and I'm not invulnerable - it's not a bunny suit with PAPR. I coast on my glasses taking care of most face droplets (similar to how I coast using many power tools), and admittedly haven't done the work to go beyond that. It's definitely an impediment to appearance and speaking, and in medium-engagement social situations I do have an N95 I fall back on to not be too obtuse.
landemva 5y ago
Good question. We have never eradicated a coronavirus in man nor beast. Prior experiments in beasts were overwhelming failures. It is in deer and cats, and transmits between species, so it will be around for approximately forever. I'm not taking new-tech medical treatments for something I already lived through at home without intervention. While OSHA mandates are all the rage, MSHA actually does safety and did not mandate. Wearing a bacteria-breeding mask becomes unhealthy and is dangerous to wear because it blocks vision down. In general, people would learn a lot about safety and prevention by working under MSHA rules for awhile. I did.
- slyall 5y ago
  >We have never eradicated a coronavirus in man nor beast No cases of SARS-CoV-1 have been reported worldwide since 2004
  - landemva 5y ago
    Good point. More accurate for me to say we have never eradicated a coronavirus with a vaccine. I suppose in the present case we could try to slaughter all of the potentially infected animals. Some humans would likely resist.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > More accurate for me to say we have never eradicated a coronavirus with a vaccine. We've never had a coronavirus get as widespread and to persist as long as to require a vaccine to combat it.
- vaxxz 5y ago
throwaway75787 5y ago
The problem I have with wearing a mask, is that it is very psychologically disturbing. I don't know how else to describe it. It is a big enough problem for me that I would not describe it as a preference. Maybe it's claustrophobia, or something to do with the touch. I hate to describe it as some kind of autism, because they said they don't like that in the other article's thread, but it feels like it. I got vaccinated and boosted, but had I known it would have become such a political virtue signalling game, I might have opted out.
- vaxxz 5y ago
  [flagged]

What’s the problem with getting vaccinated and wearing a mask?

by vaxxz 5y ago

What’s the problem with getting vaccinated and wearing a mask?

Some people turned masks and vaccines into moral absolutes which built up the opportunity for people in the business of selling attention to make money by claiming the opposite and other people who sell attention to oppose them. This all leads to side picking and a good old ideological battleground which is just a very attractive thing for humans. So the problem with masks and vaccines is that it is quite profitable for people to turn it into a battleground and not so much to help people understand risks and rewards of various strategies and choose their own risks. Not to mention the huge sense of satisfaction many humans get from being “right” and letting everyone know how right they are. The more you exaggerate and the harder you squeeze, the more opposition you get. The conclusion that comes from this is apparently that more exaggeration and authoritarianism is the solution.

klipklop 5y ago
I totally agree with this. I feel the more bullshit that gets piled on top the more I naturally just want to stubbornly resist. Even if it’s against my best interests. Sometimes I wonder if a certain subset of the population is just naturally like this. The more authority applied the more people resist, even if they intended to do the action they authoritarian insists they do to begin with. If you tell me to do something my automatic reaction is to say no. Childish I guess and find myself having to evaluate why I have this impulse from time to time. One has to wonder if the media/social media shut the fuck up about the vaccines/mask arguments compliance rates would be actually higher…
- colechristensen 5y ago
  In other words “reverse psychology works”. I don’t think very many people are actually trying to harm others by exaggerating about covid issues, but the results are the same. If you find yourself in the position of stubbornly refusing to do what people insist you do, the good thought process is realizing they aren’t the boss of you whether you’re making your choices to go along or against what they want. If you do exactly the opposite of everything someone wants you to do, they’re still controlling you.
- vaxxz 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments. Not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
boppo1 5y ago
Excellent summary. I'm double-vaxxed and generally wear a mask. My social circle (work/ friends/family) is the upper-middle-class liberal set. My life is pretty set with this group of people and I'm not throwing anyone out of it over covid-opinion silliness. However I'm routinely disgusted by their self satisfaction on this topic. An exchange I heard yesterday between two people close to me, spoken with no irony: Q: "Why won't people just get the vaccine?" A: "Fear of Democrats." Back in 2020 when this was all new, I encouraged them to wear masks while shopping, because that's what I saw people in asian countries doing and figured it wasn't unreasonable. They wanted none of it! Them: "The CDC says we shouldn't wear masks." Me: "Fuck the CDC! They don't know what's going on any better than we do. Wear masks, they will probably help" Now, they conveniently have no memory of that exchange and regularly evaluate others on whether or not they're properly 'masking'. After all the BS around this, I don't at all begrudge people their choice to not get vaccinated, even though I recognize that is probably responsible for hospitals hitting capacity.
- mindslight 5y ago
  IMO the way to avoid being resentful to an arbitrary half of people is to continue distancing yourself from the herd until you're at odds with most everyone. From my perspective, people who don't wear masks AND people who continue to wear ersatz surgical masks are all ignorant. Since this ends up being 97% of the population, I obviously cannot carry this opinion prominently. I just wear my own functional respirator in public, quietly model them as the petri dish they are, and deflect their questions with empathizable breadcrumbs.
  - boppo1 5y ago
    >functional respirator What do you use? N95?
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Half face silicone (3M 7503) with P100 filters (#2297). When/where masks are mandated, I disable the valve functionality by removing all the check valve flaps and sealing up the output with gaff tape. When they're not, I wear a second one without that mod because breathing is much easier. I'm aware this isn't perfect and I'm not invulnerable - it's not a bunny suit with PAPR. I coast on my glasses taking care of most face droplets (similar to how I coast using many power tools), and admittedly haven't done the work to go beyond that. It's definitely an impediment to appearance and speaking, and in medium-engagement social situations I do have an N95 I fall back on to not be too obtuse.

landemva 5y ago

Good question. We have never eradicated a coronavirus in man nor beast. Prior experiments in beasts were overwhelming failures. It is in deer and cats, and transmits between species, so it will be around for approximately forever. I'm not taking new-tech medical treatments for something I already lived through at home without intervention. While OSHA mandates are all the rage, MSHA actually does safety and did not mandate. Wearing a bacteria-breeding mask becomes unhealthy and is dangerous to wear because it blocks vision down. In general, people would learn a lot about safety and prevention by working under MSHA rules for awhile. I did.

slyall 5y ago
>We have never eradicated a coronavirus in man nor beast No cases of SARS-CoV-1 have been reported worldwide since 2004
- landemva 5y ago
  Good point. More accurate for me to say we have never eradicated a coronavirus with a vaccine. I suppose in the present case we could try to slaughter all of the potentially infected animals. Some humans would likely resist.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > More accurate for me to say we have never eradicated a coronavirus with a vaccine. We've never had a coronavirus get as widespread and to persist as long as to require a vaccine to combat it.
vaxxz 5y ago

throwaway75787 5y ago

The problem I have with wearing a mask, is that it is very psychologically disturbing. I don't know how else to describe it. It is a big enough problem for me that I would not describe it as a preference. Maybe it's claustrophobia, or something to do with the touch. I hate to describe it as some kind of autism, because they said they don't like that in the other article's thread, but it feels like it. I got vaccinated and boosted, but had I known it would have become such a political virtue signalling game, I might have opted out.

vaxxz 5y ago
[flagged]