4 ms·

I find it interesting that when discussing this nobody mentions immigration much or at all. The number of green cards awarded took a huge dip in 2020 [1]. As an

by aylmao 5y ago

I find it interesting that when discussing this nobody mentions immigration much or at all. The number of green cards awarded took a huge dip in 2020 [1]. As an immigrant myself, I heard a lot about USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services) slowing down considerably. Could the effects of the pandemic on immigration, on top of the slow down in legal immigration that happened during the previous administration [2], not be a significant part of this perceived shortage in labour supply? [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/22/key-facts-about-u-s-immigration-policies-and-bidens-proposed-changes/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/22/key-facts-a... [2]: https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immi...

kqvamxurcagg 5y ago
Exactly. This reason is entirely down to the lack of immigration due to travel restrictions and its effects on the wider economy. The media hasn’t really reported on this but it has been obvious for the past year. In a world without mass immigration to the west wages at the lower end would he substantially higher.
- aylmao 5y ago
  Speaking of wages, another factor that could be interesting to consider: it's well known that Mexico is by far the country has most immigrants in the USA. The current president of Mexico, who took office right before the pandemic started (Dec 2019), has been increasing the minimum wage at an accelerated rate [1] and set up a special economic zone along the Mexico-USA border. This zone has a minimum wage that's almost twice the national minimum wage, and lower taxes for companies [2]. The minimum wage there is still much less than the minimum wage in the USA, although I don't know what the average wage would be in one vs the other. Nonetheless, along with the rest of incentives immigrants have to remain in their country, I wonder if this could be leading to less immigration, on top of travel restrictions, etc. [1]: https://www.vynmsa.com/blog/en/economy/minimum-wage-in-mexico/ https://www.vynmsa.com/blog/en/economy/minimum-wage-in-mexic... [2]: https://www.gob.mx/se/acciones-y-programas/zona-libre-de-la-frontera-norte https://www.gob.mx/se/acciones-y-programas/zona-libre-de-la-...
manicdee 5y ago
By far the major visible reason for the “labour shortage” in Australia is the restrictions on tourists entering the country to take on unpaid or low paid jobs such as fruit picking.
- patja 5y ago
  I'm surprised by the tourism angle. Can you say more about that? Are these tourists who fell on hard times and had to work to raise some money? Or is it workers who exploit tourist visas just to get entry and take these jobs... In which case, why call them tourists?
  - Schiendelman 5y ago
    When you say “exploit”, keep in mind there are two parties in a work/employer relationship. Both are exploiting, and often the regulator is perfectly okay with that.
  - niij 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holidays_in_Australia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holidays_in_Australi...
  - MrsPeaches 5y ago
    Link to the work/tourist visa: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/work-holiday-417 https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li...
Dumblydorr 5y ago
This is my thought as well. Take away the supply of cheap labor coming from around the world, and from Central and South America, and you're left with lazy Americans. I don't mean that all Americans are lazy, but I mean most of us have led relatively toil free lives, and the idea of picking crops, cleaning, washing dishes, landscaping, or other hard physical jobs: Americans aren't that interested. Combine that with a movement of anti-work where menial jobs are heavily disfavored, add in a dozen other factors, and here we are.
- didon15 5y ago
  Nailed it. Couldn’t take the article seriously in its omission of these facts. I believe I read that immigration policies are having a negative effect of removing around 1.5m workers from the force. Not just in low income jobs, either. I’ve been unable to hire quite a few folks in high tech because of our VISA process issues. Such a fucking mess. This labor shortage feels like it could have been easily avoided with some common sense govt regulation, but America has gone totally off the deep end there.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    I used to do credential evaluation for foreign tech workers looking to work here. I mean, I still do but the applications have dried up, and it actually started before the pandemic due to the previous administration. Before I would do maybe a dozen a month. Now I’m lucky to get 1 a quarter. Some of my family are very anti immigrant and glad to hear this. But I’m not sure they realize how much work is getting done in the US due to foreign labor. Combine declining immigration, declining birth rates, and a system predicated on uninterrupted, unending growth and this is setting up a big issue.
    - aylmao 5y ago
      As an immigrant myself it seemed wild that I could work in the USA, and send money back to my country. It felt like a capital drain problem the USA blindsided on. Then I realized the economic gain from labour made the whole deal very worth it for the USA. The whole idea of a workforce is that it produces more value than it costs. Although I could take the money, that generated value was staying in the USA [1]. Especially for high-skilled industries where the bottleneck to growth might be hiring, this was very much worth it for them. [1]: This plus, of course, the chunk of capital the USA keeps as taxes.

by aylmao 5y ago

kqvamxurcagg 5y ago

Exactly. This reason is entirely down to the lack of immigration due to travel restrictions and its effects on the wider economy. The media hasn’t really reported on this but it has been obvious for the past year. In a world without mass immigration to the west wages at the lower end would he substantially higher.

aylmao 5y ago
Speaking of wages, another factor that could be interesting to consider: it's well known that Mexico is by far the country has most immigrants in the USA. The current president of Mexico, who took office right before the pandemic started (Dec 2019), has been increasing the minimum wage at an accelerated rate [1] and set up a special economic zone along the Mexico-USA border. This zone has a minimum wage that's almost twice the national minimum wage, and lower taxes for companies [2]. The minimum wage there is still much less than the minimum wage in the USA, although I don't know what the average wage would be in one vs the other. Nonetheless, along with the rest of incentives immigrants have to remain in their country, I wonder if this could be leading to less immigration, on top of travel restrictions, etc. [1]: https://www.vynmsa.com/blog/en/economy/minimum-wage-in-mexico/ https://www.vynmsa.com/blog/en/economy/minimum-wage-in-mexic... [2]: https://www.gob.mx/se/acciones-y-programas/zona-libre-de-la-frontera-norte https://www.gob.mx/se/acciones-y-programas/zona-libre-de-la-...

manicdee 5y ago

By far the major visible reason for the “labour shortage” in Australia is the restrictions on tourists entering the country to take on unpaid or low paid jobs such as fruit picking.

patja 5y ago
I'm surprised by the tourism angle. Can you say more about that? Are these tourists who fell on hard times and had to work to raise some money? Or is it workers who exploit tourist visas just to get entry and take these jobs... In which case, why call them tourists?
- Schiendelman 5y ago
  When you say “exploit”, keep in mind there are two parties in a work/employer relationship. Both are exploiting, and often the regulator is perfectly okay with that.
- niij 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holidays_in_Australia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holidays_in_Australi...
- MrsPeaches 5y ago
  Link to the work/tourist visa: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/work-holiday-417 https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li...

Dumblydorr 5y ago

This is my thought as well. Take away the supply of cheap labor coming from around the world, and from Central and South America, and you're left with lazy Americans. I don't mean that all Americans are lazy, but I mean most of us have led relatively toil free lives, and the idea of picking crops, cleaning, washing dishes, landscaping, or other hard physical jobs: Americans aren't that interested. Combine that with a movement of anti-work where menial jobs are heavily disfavored, add in a dozen other factors, and here we are.

didon15 5y ago
Nailed it. Couldn’t take the article seriously in its omission of these facts. I believe I read that immigration policies are having a negative effect of removing around 1.5m workers from the force. Not just in low income jobs, either. I’ve been unable to hire quite a few folks in high tech because of our VISA process issues. Such a fucking mess. This labor shortage feels like it could have been easily avoided with some common sense govt regulation, but America has gone totally off the deep end there.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  I used to do credential evaluation for foreign tech workers looking to work here. I mean, I still do but the applications have dried up, and it actually started before the pandemic due to the previous administration. Before I would do maybe a dozen a month. Now I’m lucky to get 1 a quarter. Some of my family are very anti immigrant and glad to hear this. But I’m not sure they realize how much work is getting done in the US due to foreign labor. Combine declining immigration, declining birth rates, and a system predicated on uninterrupted, unending growth and this is setting up a big issue.
  - aylmao 5y ago
    As an immigrant myself it seemed wild that I could work in the USA, and send money back to my country. It felt like a capital drain problem the USA blindsided on. Then I realized the economic gain from labour made the whole deal very worth it for the USA. The whole idea of a workforce is that it produces more value than it costs. Although I could take the money, that generated value was staying in the USA [1]. Especially for high-skilled industries where the bottleneck to growth might be hiring, this was very much worth it for them. [1]: This plus, of course, the chunk of capital the USA keeps as taxes.