4 ms·

Why is time-of-use annoying?

dredmorbius 5y ago
Presumably: because electric rate charges vary with time of day, while cooking demands are relatively static. In a high-renewables regime, there's the "duck curve" problem where renewable energy, especially solar power, is most abundant during the midday, whilst demand peaks in the early evening as lighting, heating or cooling loads (depending on season), and you guessed it, cooking loads come on-line. If you arrive home at 17:30 and plan on eating within the half hour, you're using the most expensive electricity of the day. That said, total cooking energy use isn't tremendously high (2--3 kW), and most heating tasks consume less than full output for well under an hour. You can operate a cooktop or oven at full heat for an hour for well under $1 unless rates are Texas-level high. That would be seriously atypical usage. https://www.directenergy.com/learning-center/how-much-energy-does-oven-and-electric-stove-use https://www.directenergy.com/learning-center/how-much-energy... Taking advantage of lower midday rates would be possible with a crock-pot, slow-cooker, sous-vide, or similar methods, though that does require advanced planning and doesn't suit all cooking techniques.
- jlebar 5y ago
  Presumably they're talking about putative electric heating, not cooking.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Or cooling. Both loads are fairly modest in California compared to other parts of the US, though AC usage in the inland valleys may be high, and will likely be getting higher bye and bye. Whole-house air filtration may also increasingly become A Thing.
    - zbrozek 5y ago
      Whole-house air filtering costs me around 100-200 watts depending on filter state. It runs continuously roughly from the end of June to mid-November (particulates season).
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        My comment was more on the likely future of air quality and the past five years' history on the west coast, and implications for future HVAC systems design. Yes, the energy loads are fairly minimal. Though you'll have a blower, and either replaceable filters or electrostatic filters (themselves requiring an additional power draw).
zbrozek 5y ago
Because of the cognitive burden of trying to optimize and work around ludicrously high rates with changing windows. It's why I cling to my outdated tiered plan - I just don't want to let yet another thing steal my attention. Baking a loaf of bread would cost me $7 at current TOU peak. It's cheaper for me to buy one from the grocery store on energy costs alone, nevermind the material. That's craziness. And even baseline rates in CA rise at 3-4x inflation. Maybe burning kerosene for lighting will become economically viable again.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  Following up - I'm currently visiting my parents in eastern Tennessee and asked to see their electric bills. They're all-electric and they averaged 3x the consumption that I do. But their electricity bill is 2x lower. I almost cried.

Presumably: because electric rate charges vary with time of day, while cooking demands are relatively static. In a high-renewables regime, there's the "duck curve" problem where renewable energy, especially solar power, is most abundant during the midday, whilst demand peaks in the early evening as lighting, heating or cooling loads (depending on season), and you guessed it, cooking loads come on-line. If you arrive home at 17:30 and plan on eating within the half hour, you're using the most expensive electricity of the day. That said, total cooking energy use isn't tremendously high (2--3 kW), and most heating tasks consume less than full output for well under an hour. You can operate a cooktop or oven at full heat for an hour for well under $1 unless rates are Texas-level high. That would be seriously atypical usage. https://www.directenergy.com/learning-center/how-much-energy-does-oven-and-electric-stove-use https://www.directenergy.com/learning-center/how-much-energy... Taking advantage of lower midday rates would be possible with a crock-pot, slow-cooker, sous-vide, or similar methods, though that does require advanced planning and doesn't suit all cooking techniques.

jlebar 5y ago
Presumably they're talking about putative electric heating, not cooking.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Or cooling. Both loads are fairly modest in California compared to other parts of the US, though AC usage in the inland valleys may be high, and will likely be getting higher bye and bye. Whole-house air filtration may also increasingly become A Thing.
  - zbrozek 5y ago
    Whole-house air filtering costs me around 100-200 watts depending on filter state. It runs continuously roughly from the end of June to mid-November (particulates season).
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      My comment was more on the likely future of air quality and the past five years' history on the west coast, and implications for future HVAC systems design. Yes, the energy loads are fairly minimal. Though you'll have a blower, and either replaceable filters or electrostatic filters (themselves requiring an additional power draw).

zbrozek 5y ago

Because of the cognitive burden of trying to optimize and work around ludicrously high rates with changing windows. It's why I cling to my outdated tiered plan - I just don't want to let yet another thing steal my attention. Baking a loaf of bread would cost me $7 at current TOU peak. It's cheaper for me to buy one from the grocery store on energy costs alone, nevermind the material. That's craziness. And even baseline rates in CA rise at 3-4x inflation. Maybe burning kerosene for lighting will become economically viable again.

zbrozek 5y ago
Following up - I'm currently visiting my parents in eastern Tennessee and asked to see their electric bills. They're all-electric and they averaged 3x the consumption that I do. But their electricity bill is 2x lower. I almost cried.