4 ms·

The process of making unwanted real estate wanted is called real estate development. It's not done by "young people just moving there." That just makes crappy r

The process of making unwanted real estate wanted is called real estate development. It's not done by "young people just moving there." That just makes crappy real estate more crowded. Real estate development is very much a "build it and they will come" sort of deal. It takes capital, a lot of it, to make an area desirable. You can't just dump it anywhere, there has to be a good reason to dump it in this particular area otherwise the hip young people will go somewhere that did have a good reason. And the poor investors who poured money into a development in that area won't see any appreciation or significant profit, because no one else is developing the area, just them. Lots and lots and lots of money going into lots and lots and lots of developments, that's what turns the sticks into the burbs. You just can't put the family cart before the development horse, every young person starting a family has different reasons for moving out to the sticks. Left alone without already-developed real estate, they'll just spread out evenly across rural America.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
What are the good reasons to develop an area? Proximity to a better one? Fresh water sources? Desirable weather? Good schools? Unpolluted environment? Nice parks?
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  All of these things. The more the better, and places with better potential get developed first. Commercial opportunities tend to be developed first, followed by better weather. As all these places got developed, tertiary concerns become more important. Rural America will mostly stay rural and suburbs will slowly develop economies and become part of the metro areas they surround.
  - buck4roo 5y ago
    Suburbs are a Ponzi scheme. They do not cover their existing infrastructure maintenance costs... https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0
pdonis 5y ago
Perhaps the problem with the availability of housing is the "real estate development" model you describe, which is capital intensive and therefore will be undertaken by large corporations instead of by the people who will actually live in the area and who therefore have a personal stake in how livable it is. Perhaps if more development was done by "young people just moving there", we would have more livable areas and less competition for housing.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  Ordinary people don't have the money to, say, build sewers and roads.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    They do if they pool their resources through, say, property taxes paid to their locality. Localities can build out basic infrastructure without having to have large corporations do all the development. That has the added advantage that you get actual communities that grow and evolve over time instead of sterile cookie cutter suburbs.
    - vinceguidry 5y ago
      Without the advantages of upfront planning and design, they'll pay more for crappier services. If the area grows significantly, then they'll have to pay even more on top for upgrades. But hey, at least it'll be idyllic. Good luck keeping your kids around after they graduate high school.
      - pdonis 5y ago
        > Without the advantages of upfront planning and design, they'll pay more for crappier services. I've had that experience in neighborhoods that did have the "advantages" of upfront planning and design. I don't think upfront planning and design is the panacea you are making it out to be.
    - diordiderot 5y ago
seibelj 5y ago
Or just move to a shitty area that is cheaper, plenty of those around.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  It won't make the areas better in any meaningful sense.
  - seibelj 5y ago
    When I moved to my neighborhood it was dangerous to walk in at night and there were no children. 10 years later and plenty of families are here. The movement of all of these people are what made it safer - people who want a safe and healthy community. I don’t know why you are so defeatist, it must be a depressing mindset.
  - refurb 5y ago
    You alone won’t but how else do crappy areas get nicer? You’d be surprised at how some of the most desirable neighborhoods in SF were once “crappy” only 20 years ago.

paulryanrogers 5y ago

What are the good reasons to develop an area? Proximity to a better one? Fresh water sources? Desirable weather? Good schools? Unpolluted environment? Nice parks?

vinceguidry 5y ago
All of these things. The more the better, and places with better potential get developed first. Commercial opportunities tend to be developed first, followed by better weather. As all these places got developed, tertiary concerns become more important. Rural America will mostly stay rural and suburbs will slowly develop economies and become part of the metro areas they surround.
- buck4roo 5y ago
  Suburbs are a Ponzi scheme. They do not cover their existing infrastructure maintenance costs... https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0

pdonis 5y ago

Perhaps the problem with the availability of housing is the "real estate development" model you describe, which is capital intensive and therefore will be undertaken by large corporations instead of by the people who will actually live in the area and who therefore have a personal stake in how livable it is. Perhaps if more development was done by "young people just moving there", we would have more livable areas and less competition for housing.

vinceguidry 5y ago
Ordinary people don't have the money to, say, build sewers and roads.
- pdonis 5y ago
  They do if they pool their resources through, say, property taxes paid to their locality. Localities can build out basic infrastructure without having to have large corporations do all the development. That has the added advantage that you get actual communities that grow and evolve over time instead of sterile cookie cutter suburbs.
  - vinceguidry 5y ago
    Without the advantages of upfront planning and design, they'll pay more for crappier services. If the area grows significantly, then they'll have to pay even more on top for upgrades. But hey, at least it'll be idyllic. Good luck keeping your kids around after they graduate high school.
    - pdonis 5y ago
      > Without the advantages of upfront planning and design, they'll pay more for crappier services. I've had that experience in neighborhoods that did have the "advantages" of upfront planning and design. I don't think upfront planning and design is the panacea you are making it out to be.
  - diordiderot 5y ago

seibelj 5y ago

Or just move to a shitty area that is cheaper, plenty of those around.

vinceguidry 5y ago
It won't make the areas better in any meaningful sense.
- seibelj 5y ago
  When I moved to my neighborhood it was dangerous to walk in at night and there were no children. 10 years later and plenty of families are here. The movement of all of these people are what made it safer - people who want a safe and healthy community. I don’t know why you are so defeatist, it must be a depressing mindset.
- refurb 5y ago
  You alone won’t but how else do crappy areas get nicer? You’d be surprised at how some of the most desirable neighborhoods in SF were once “crappy” only 20 years ago.