3 ms·

Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. The reality is that

Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic. People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. But I'm annoyed by the trend of bending reality just because it makes people feel better.

Fnoord 5y ago
> Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. In general, in discussions, there's a lack of empathy, and I believe its valuable to build develop such. Creating empathy was indeed part of my motivation. It also puts emphasis on a supply and demand issue. > The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic My wife and I are autistic. Its likely (but not guaranteed) our 2 children are autistic. According to your statement, in your humble opinion, not only should I not have been born, we should not have gotten children (we did use double folic acid dose on second because scientific research suggests it helps against certain autism traits which are perceived as negative. On first we did not yet know we had ASD though we suspected it and were on waiting list for diagnosis) because of the high risk of neurodiversive children. Some of my wife's friends said the same. Thanks for the advice. That being said, yes I would have been deeply unhappy with a child born with a severe disability, for example syndrome of down. My wife would have been happy. We likely would have split up because if that, its a risk we took. But I recognize it is my view on syndrome of down, and my issue with dealing with it (not sure why... I grew up with neighbor kid having it). Its kind if like I am biased against it, generalizing. Even though I saw a beautiful film about it: Yo, Tambien. The issue lies with me, not people with syndrome of down. And perhaps, maybe a bonding process would have successfully happened because with my 2 children it is difficult to fathom I would not love them for how they are. Annoyed at times? Sure, but that is a given. > People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. (Unemployment is at an all time low in my country.) Employment isn't what defines you in life, in my opinion. Unemployment is a supply and demand issue with only losing parties (unemployed, society, government). Not only one losing party. It doesn't have to be this way. I am convinced every human wants to be functional in society, with respect to their being (things they cannot change). In my country, companies need to hire a percentage of their employees as disabled people, and they need to work around the negative connotations of their disabilities. That doesn't imply they're bad employees though. Just that they have a different manual. Thing is, I went to an education where everyone had an autism diagnosis. I have seen diversity in neurodiversity. I have met people on the spectrum who have high potential, or who have achieved such. After I finished education I got hired because I am on the spectrum, and I function. My colleagues are happy with me as their co-employee, and I love being part of this team. In short, supply and demand was met. > I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. So, your post is some kind of possible self ridiculing? What you said is akin to saying people of colour [a trait you are born with] are subhumans, then saying you might have some lineage if some foreign culture, or that you are a POC yourself, or got friends who are POC. Chapeau.
- RivieraKid 5y ago
  Well, the way I see it, the difference between autism and anxiety disorder, OCD or insomnia is that autism is seen as an inherent, unchangeable part of ones identity. It's who you are, not something you have. So autism being considered negative is much more harmful and damaging to the person's psyche than anxiety disorder for example. Which is why there's been a push for normalizing and destigmatizing autism. Similar is true for LGBT+. It's why racism is considered so harmful - it's very hard and unsettling to think of yourself as inferior to others. My problem is that I think this push has gone too far, to the point where reality is being bended.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    > My problem is that I think this push has gone too far, to the point where reality is being bended. I think it still has a very long way to go before it can actually start bending the other way.
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    A personality disorder is also something which usually lasts your entire lifetime. We need to work around our disabilities, whether its being in a wheelchair, deaf or bad hearing, insomnia, anxiety, or something else. There's various ways to do that, for example learning more about your disorder from credible sources, cognitive therapy, drugs/medicine, or an aid/device such as a hearing aid, or good ol' helping each other out. Example of the latter: a friend of my wife is autistic (proper diagnosis, in fact they met during post-diagnosis support group), too, and he can work (he has own company), but he is unable to clean his house. Its too much chaos for him. So my wife does it for the time being, as his housemaid couldn't deal with him, and recently quit. And soon, my wife is getting paid for that work. Because of that, we'll both officially work, and we get free morning daycare for our toddler instead of having to shell out 200 EUR/month. Its a win-win-win.

Fnoord 5y ago

> Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. In general, in discussions, there's a lack of empathy, and I believe its valuable to build develop such. Creating empathy was indeed part of my motivation. It also puts emphasis on a supply and demand issue. > The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic My wife and I are autistic. Its likely (but not guaranteed) our 2 children are autistic. According to your statement, in your humble opinion, not only should I not have been born, we should not have gotten children (we did use double folic acid dose on second because scientific research suggests it helps against certain autism traits which are perceived as negative. On first we did not yet know we had ASD though we suspected it and were on waiting list for diagnosis) because of the high risk of neurodiversive children. Some of my wife's friends said the same. Thanks for the advice. That being said, yes I would have been deeply unhappy with a child born with a severe disability, for example syndrome of down. My wife would have been happy. We likely would have split up because if that, its a risk we took. But I recognize it is my view on syndrome of down, and my issue with dealing with it (not sure why... I grew up with neighbor kid having it). Its kind if like I am biased against it, generalizing. Even though I saw a beautiful film about it: Yo, Tambien. The issue lies with me, not people with syndrome of down. And perhaps, maybe a bonding process would have successfully happened because with my 2 children it is difficult to fathom I would not love them for how they are. Annoyed at times? Sure, but that is a given. > People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. (Unemployment is at an all time low in my country.) Employment isn't what defines you in life, in my opinion. Unemployment is a supply and demand issue with only losing parties (unemployed, society, government). Not only one losing party. It doesn't have to be this way. I am convinced every human wants to be functional in society, with respect to their being (things they cannot change). In my country, companies need to hire a percentage of their employees as disabled people, and they need to work around the negative connotations of their disabilities. That doesn't imply they're bad employees though. Just that they have a different manual. Thing is, I went to an education where everyone had an autism diagnosis. I have seen diversity in neurodiversity. I have met people on the spectrum who have high potential, or who have achieved such. After I finished education I got hired because I am on the spectrum, and I function. My colleagues are happy with me as their co-employee, and I love being part of this team. In short, supply and demand was met. > I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. So, your post is some kind of possible self ridiculing? What you said is akin to saying people of colour [a trait you are born with] are subhumans, then saying you might have some lineage if some foreign culture, or that you are a POC yourself, or got friends who are POC. Chapeau.

RivieraKid 5y ago
Well, the way I see it, the difference between autism and anxiety disorder, OCD or insomnia is that autism is seen as an inherent, unchangeable part of ones identity. It's who you are, not something you have. So autism being considered negative is much more harmful and damaging to the person's psyche than anxiety disorder for example. Which is why there's been a push for normalizing and destigmatizing autism. Similar is true for LGBT+. It's why racism is considered so harmful - it's very hard and unsettling to think of yourself as inferior to others. My problem is that I think this push has gone too far, to the point where reality is being bended.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  > My problem is that I think this push has gone too far, to the point where reality is being bended. I think it still has a very long way to go before it can actually start bending the other way.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  A personality disorder is also something which usually lasts your entire lifetime. We need to work around our disabilities, whether its being in a wheelchair, deaf or bad hearing, insomnia, anxiety, or something else. There's various ways to do that, for example learning more about your disorder from credible sources, cognitive therapy, drugs/medicine, or an aid/device such as a hearing aid, or good ol' helping each other out. Example of the latter: a friend of my wife is autistic (proper diagnosis, in fact they met during post-diagnosis support group), too, and he can work (he has own company), but he is unable to clean his house. Its too much chaos for him. So my wife does it for the time being, as his housemaid couldn't deal with him, and recently quit. And soon, my wife is getting paid for that work. Because of that, we'll both officially work, and we get free morning daycare for our toddler instead of having to shell out 200 EUR/month. Its a win-win-win.