3 ms·

Your comment comes across as condescending, full of assumptioms, and plain ignorant but I want to address them. Let me start with an analogy. Imagine the brain

by Fnoord 5y ago

Your comment comes across as condescending, full of assumptioms, and plain ignorant but I want to address them. Let me start with an analogy. Imagine the brain as a circle. That's the brain of a normal person (sometimes called normie in quich vocabulary). The brain of someome on the spectrum is oval instead. Society assumes all brains are circles, and is build around that. Does that make ovales useless? Only if you look at it from the myopic point of view of society assuming and requiring circles. You furthermore say 'Asperger to me means X'. Asperger was (DSM-V ditched it) a description of traits and the person with an Asperger's diagnosis checks some of these boxes, but everyone's different [1]. You zoomed in on one specific trait, but ignore the rest. I'll leave it to you to judge on what that says on your capability to assess Asperger traits. My father had MS. He ended up in a wheelchair, but he didn't start in one. MS is a disease, autism is a personality trait. You cannot cure the latter (they can't cure MS either, only stop the progression but that's specific to some diseases and perhaps one day the scientific community overcomes that hurdle). The brain size/shape is what it is which is why some people who are autistic insist in them being called autistic instead of them having autism. I try to be relaxed when it comes to language, but my wife (also diagnosed with) has a different take on matters. Since autism and Asperger's has its pros and cons, calling it solely a disability is myopic and, if extrapolated, outright condescending and flat out ignorant. Back about my wheelchair father, growing up with a father who is chronically ill and who tries to find peace around it gave me compassion and respect for disabled people, or those who are in need. Not only that, the old man was legally blind. His hearing though! He probably had undiagnosed autism, but he could hear details and draw conclusions from such which I could not. Because I was not trained in it as a blind person. People who call Asperger's their super power are just boasting they are able to benefit from their oval more than it harms them, or so they are trying to imply such. There's probably a context to such a situation, and perhaps an other reason it annoys you. [1] In a support group for people with ASD (after properly diagnosed) the diversity, hurdles, and benefits become clear. There's common grounds, but also so many differences! I have this with my wife who is diagnosed as well (^2)

RivieraKid 5y ago
Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic. People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. But I'm annoyed by the trend of bending reality just because it makes people feel better.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  > Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. In general, in discussions, there's a lack of empathy, and I believe its valuable to build develop such. Creating empathy was indeed part of my motivation. It also puts emphasis on a supply and demand issue. > The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic My wife and I are autistic. Its likely (but not guaranteed) our 2 children are autistic. According to your statement, in your humble opinion, not only should I not have been born, we should not have gotten children (we did use double folic acid dose on second because scientific research suggests it helps against certain autism traits which are perceived as negative. On first we did not yet know we had ASD though we suspected it and were on waiting list for diagnosis) because of the high risk of neurodiversive children. Some of my wife's friends said the same. Thanks for the advice. That being said, yes I would have been deeply unhappy with a child born with a severe disability, for example syndrome of down. My wife would have been happy. We likely would have split up because if that, its a risk we took. But I recognize it is my view on syndrome of down, and my issue with dealing with it (not sure why... I grew up with neighbor kid having it). Its kind if like I am biased against it, generalizing. Even though I saw a beautiful film about it: Yo, Tambien. The issue lies with me, not people with syndrome of down. And perhaps, maybe a bonding process would have successfully happened because with my 2 children it is difficult to fathom I would not love them for how they are. Annoyed at times? Sure, but that is a given. > People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. (Unemployment is at an all time low in my country.) Employment isn't what defines you in life, in my opinion. Unemployment is a supply and demand issue with only losing parties (unemployed, society, government). Not only one losing party. It doesn't have to be this way. I am convinced every human wants to be functional in society, with respect to their being (things they cannot change). In my country, companies need to hire a percentage of their employees as disabled people, and they need to work around the negative connotations of their disabilities. That doesn't imply they're bad employees though. Just that they have a different manual. Thing is, I went to an education where everyone had an autism diagnosis. I have seen diversity in neurodiversity. I have met people on the spectrum who have high potential, or who have achieved such. After I finished education I got hired because I am on the spectrum, and I function. My colleagues are happy with me as their co-employee, and I love being part of this team. In short, supply and demand was met. > I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. So, your post is some kind of possible self ridiculing? What you said is akin to saying people of colour [a trait you are born with] are subhumans, then saying you might have some lineage if some foreign culture, or that you are a POC yourself, or got friends who are POC. Chapeau.
TheGoddessInari 5y ago
> autism is a personality trait. > The brain size/shape is what it is which is why some people who are autistic insist in them being called autistic instead of them having autism. > Since autism and Asperger's has its pros and cons, calling it solely a disability is myopic and, if extrapolated, outright condescending and flat out ignorant. I think I'd be more comfortable with people calling it a disability than people calling it a personality trait... That feeds into the point that the article is addressing.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Right, I missed a mark there. Rather it would be a list of personality traits being linked to autism. Neurodevelopmental disability or neurodevelopmental disorder fits better (implies incurable), but it has a negative connotation; precisely what I wanted to address. The article could have used a 3D cube to describe the spectrum. Then you get the colors and tints of it. Some people describe all the traits with spectrum, some severity of specific trait. 3D cube covers both, kind of like a 3D spectrogram, just multiple charts. The text then becomes context, and you immediately notice visually the differences. Context is still very much relevant though. I thought the article was good but missed the mark on the comparson of suffering. In general, high functioning autistics are (seemingly) more intelligent, and intelligent people seem to suffer more from things like depression, weight of the world being on their shoulders. My 3 y.o. (who appears to be intelligent and likely on spectrum) doesn't realize such yet. Innocence is a blessing in disguise.

by Fnoord 5y ago

RivieraKid 5y ago

Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic. People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. But I'm annoyed by the trend of bending reality just because it makes people feel better.

Fnoord 5y ago
> Let's be honest, all of this is really motivated by empathy, the goal is to avoid thinking of people with ASD as "worse" than other people. In general, in discussions, there's a lack of empathy, and I believe its valuable to build develop such. Creating empathy was indeed part of my motivation. It also puts emphasis on a supply and demand issue. > The reality is that nobody would want their child be autistic My wife and I are autistic. Its likely (but not guaranteed) our 2 children are autistic. According to your statement, in your humble opinion, not only should I not have been born, we should not have gotten children (we did use double folic acid dose on second because scientific research suggests it helps against certain autism traits which are perceived as negative. On first we did not yet know we had ASD though we suspected it and were on waiting list for diagnosis) because of the high risk of neurodiversive children. Some of my wife's friends said the same. Thanks for the advice. That being said, yes I would have been deeply unhappy with a child born with a severe disability, for example syndrome of down. My wife would have been happy. We likely would have split up because if that, its a risk we took. But I recognize it is my view on syndrome of down, and my issue with dealing with it (not sure why... I grew up with neighbor kid having it). Its kind if like I am biased against it, generalizing. Even though I saw a beautiful film about it: Yo, Tambien. The issue lies with me, not people with syndrome of down. And perhaps, maybe a bonding process would have successfully happened because with my 2 children it is difficult to fathom I would not love them for how they are. Annoyed at times? Sure, but that is a given. > People with autism have an extremely high unemployment rate. So clearly, it's not a neutral personality trait. You don't get diagnosed with a personality trait. (Unemployment is at an all time low in my country.) Employment isn't what defines you in life, in my opinion. Unemployment is a supply and demand issue with only losing parties (unemployed, society, government). Not only one losing party. It doesn't have to be this way. I am convinced every human wants to be functional in society, with respect to their being (things they cannot change). In my country, companies need to hire a percentage of their employees as disabled people, and they need to work around the negative connotations of their disabilities. That doesn't imply they're bad employees though. Just that they have a different manual. Thing is, I went to an education where everyone had an autism diagnosis. I have seen diversity in neurodiversity. I have met people on the spectrum who have high potential, or who have achieved such. After I finished education I got hired because I am on the spectrum, and I function. My colleagues are happy with me as their co-employee, and I love being part of this team. In short, supply and demand was met. > I say this despite suspecting that I could be on the spectrum. So, your post is some kind of possible self ridiculing? What you said is akin to saying people of colour [a trait you are born with] are subhumans, then saying you might have some lineage if some foreign culture, or that you are a POC yourself, or got friends who are POC. Chapeau.

TheGoddessInari 5y ago

> autism is a personality trait. > The brain size/shape is what it is which is why some people who are autistic insist in them being called autistic instead of them having autism. > Since autism and Asperger's has its pros and cons, calling it solely a disability is myopic and, if extrapolated, outright condescending and flat out ignorant. I think I'd be more comfortable with people calling it a disability than people calling it a personality trait... That feeds into the point that the article is addressing.

Fnoord 5y ago
Right, I missed a mark there. Rather it would be a list of personality traits being linked to autism. Neurodevelopmental disability or neurodevelopmental disorder fits better (implies incurable), but it has a negative connotation; precisely what I wanted to address. The article could have used a 3D cube to describe the spectrum. Then you get the colors and tints of it. Some people describe all the traits with spectrum, some severity of specific trait. 3D cube covers both, kind of like a 3D spectrogram, just multiple charts. The text then becomes context, and you immediately notice visually the differences. Context is still very much relevant though. I thought the article was good but missed the mark on the comparson of suffering. In general, high functioning autistics are (seemingly) more intelligent, and intelligent people seem to suffer more from things like depression, weight of the world being on their shoulders. My 3 y.o. (who appears to be intelligent and likely on spectrum) doesn't realize such yet. Innocence is a blessing in disguise.