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The soviet Union collapsed because Russia under Gorbachev stopped subsidising all the other countries, which were dependant on Russia for money to buy basic thi

The soviet Union collapsed because Russia under Gorbachev stopped subsidising all the other countries, which were dependant on Russia for money to buy basic things like food from the west. It becomes harder to convince people of your position while they are starving. So yeah people stopped believing. But there's a Long time from 1917 to 1990. And for the bulk of that time people believed enough for the status quo to be maintained. And plenty of people in Western societies belive adds, and the evidence for this is that companies and parties keep making them...

pvg 5y ago
Your theory of Soviet collapse runs very much against recorded facts that you can easily look up, though. The Soviet union wasn't made up of 'other countries' and Soviet satellite states were not dependent on the Soviet Union for food and no Warsaw Pact country or Soviet republic had starving people in 1989. They were not utterly oblivious to the outside world and accepting of the government and party line from 1917 to 1990. The last one already sounds completely implausible it should give you pause - that would make generations of Soviet people utter naifs. They weren't.
- bruce511 5y ago
  A comment in a forum seems inadequate to cover the root causes of the soviet breakup, but it ultimately did come down to food and money. Firstly, the soviet Union was made up of a number of separate countries (as the original article notes things were quite different in Russia, Lithuania and East Germany. While all lead by communist parties, all operated in fear of Russian occupation (as happened in Hungary in 1956 and czechoslovakia in 1968). Soviet block countries were dependent on Russia for aid, and military support. In the late 80's Russia was unwilling, and unable, to spend the necessary money to cover all the needs, so states prioritised food (on the basis that starving people are seldom compliment). Necessary maintaince of (for example) the border fence between Hungary and Austria is not paid for (by Russia) leading to the first domino falling and a route being opened to the west. In Poland and Berlin popular movements progress quickly, and in both cases Gorbachev refuses to use the Russian military to prop up those govts. These are but the broadest strokes though - obviously there are a lot of moving parts, and a lot of different populations in play. But money is at the root of it all, and Warsaw pact countries needed money to import food from the west.
  - pvg 5y ago
    Sure but you're weaseling out of the things you originally said, neither of which are true - that there was universal and broad belief in the ideology of the system because basically people had not heard any better, all the way up to 1989. And that at the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union, Soviet republics or Warsaw countries were starving. Your newer stuff isn't much better (Hungary didn't let East Germans into Austria because the fence was under-maintained) but that's probably past the point at which should wrap this up.

pvg 5y ago

Your theory of Soviet collapse runs very much against recorded facts that you can easily look up, though. The Soviet union wasn't made up of 'other countries' and Soviet satellite states were not dependent on the Soviet Union for food and no Warsaw Pact country or Soviet republic had starving people in 1989. They were not utterly oblivious to the outside world and accepting of the government and party line from 1917 to 1990. The last one already sounds completely implausible it should give you pause - that would make generations of Soviet people utter naifs. They weren't.

bruce511 5y ago
A comment in a forum seems inadequate to cover the root causes of the soviet breakup, but it ultimately did come down to food and money. Firstly, the soviet Union was made up of a number of separate countries (as the original article notes things were quite different in Russia, Lithuania and East Germany. While all lead by communist parties, all operated in fear of Russian occupation (as happened in Hungary in 1956 and czechoslovakia in 1968). Soviet block countries were dependent on Russia for aid, and military support. In the late 80's Russia was unwilling, and unable, to spend the necessary money to cover all the needs, so states prioritised food (on the basis that starving people are seldom compliment). Necessary maintaince of (for example) the border fence between Hungary and Austria is not paid for (by Russia) leading to the first domino falling and a route being opened to the west. In Poland and Berlin popular movements progress quickly, and in both cases Gorbachev refuses to use the Russian military to prop up those govts. These are but the broadest strokes though - obviously there are a lot of moving parts, and a lot of different populations in play. But money is at the root of it all, and Warsaw pact countries needed money to import food from the west.
- pvg 5y ago
  Sure but you're weaseling out of the things you originally said, neither of which are true - that there was universal and broad belief in the ideology of the system because basically people had not heard any better, all the way up to 1989. And that at the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union, Soviet republics or Warsaw countries were starving. Your newer stuff isn't much better (Hungary didn't let East Germans into Austria because the fence was under-maintained) but that's probably past the point at which should wrap this up.