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Scotland is a sovereign nation which is currently in a long term "marriage" with England through the Treaty of Union. It's not trying secede from the United Kin

Scotland is a sovereign nation which is currently in a long term "marriage" with England through the Treaty of Union. It's not trying secede from the United Kingdom in as much as it's trying to get a divorce - not unlike Brexit. As a result while many people draw parallels with the situation in Catalonia it's not the same. The Spanish government has little to fear from the breakup of the United Kingdom and likely has much to gain. As member of the European Union Scotland has a lot of natural resources from fish to energy which would benefit other EU members.

jacquesm 5y ago
Yes, but politicians aren't always rational and the Spanish have already voiced their concerns about this. The funny thing (well, not really funny, but given the situation there is something that borders on humor) to me is that England is absolutely adamant that Scotland can't secede from the Union when that is exactly what they just forced Scotland to be a part of with the EU. It boggles the mind how they twist themselves into the weirdest illogical pretzels arguing that when Scotland voted to stay in the Union that vote was binding even post Brexit, as if the circumstances haven't materially changed. We'll see how that one ends. But eventually the only thing that matters is the economy and for now that doesn't look all that good for the UK, the sooner they turn around the better for everybody. But Europe is not going to push for this, it will have to come from inside for it to work.
- colinb 5y ago
  how is that different that the Scots voting to leave the UK rather than remain part of the union? None of this is, or has to be logical. When I lived in Scotland I knew people who voted both for and against independence from the UK. Now, all of those people are pro-independence; and strongly in favor of an independent Scotland joining the EU. That might perhaps be optimistic - I don't know if the rest of the EU can convince a right-wing Spanish government to let a separatist Scotland in. Also, I think the idea that all that matters is the economy is glib nonsense. Whether people should vote with their emotions matters little, when they in fact do vote with their hearts. My own feelings on Scottish independence aside, I wonder if the Scottish Nationalists would have had more success in the last referendum if instead of making an (IMO rather weak) economic argument, they had stuck with the more emotional case for independence. "Yes, voting for separation from the UK will make us poorer for a time, but it'll be worth it to <sound of trumpets> be free." I am from a place that impoverished itself for most of a century via independence, but I don't think many of us would vote to back with our old imperial masters now.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I think joining the EU or not for a candidate country is first an economic advantage and second about freedom of movement. Nationalist sentiments ('free') are obviously going to have to take a backseat to those. So I don't see how a referendum on that using the dual theme of being 'free' and then immediately joining the EU would work in practice, that sounds like arguing both sides at the same time.
sofixa 5y ago
That's what Catalonia was, originally joining under Aragon crown with the Castille crown in a marriage. It was just a long time ago and multiple political and government (r)evolutions ( a few civil wars, revolutions, monarchy, republic, dictatorship) and it's now merely an autonomous region.
maxwell86 5y ago
The most important resource Scottland brings to the EU is destabilizing the UK, and setting an example for what happens when a country democracy decays down to the point of them making very poor political decisions “at the EU level”. In the EU nobody cares if you make bad political decisions at the local level, like in Poland or Hungary, but once you create 4 years of painful Brexit negotiations for all other countries involved, then people care about you wasting their time.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Oh please. This whole setting an example business really has no connection to reality. The UK is in the driving seat here, destabilizing the UK benefits nobody but the financial powers in the UK figured that they'd rather be bigger fish in a much smaller pond that they control. The end result always was predictable. But Scotland and Ireland don't really benefit from 'The City' and as such lost a lot more than they gained. These side effects, conveniently ignored by the 'leave' camp come with a major cost attached, which will likely negate all of the gains.
timellis-smith 5y ago
I doubt Scotland would be allowed into the EU with its current budget deficit. From what I understand, it would need some serious austerity to be bought in line with EU accession laws.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Compared to other countries already in the EU I don't see that as a huge problem, the Copenhagen criteria could be met. But regardless, it would always be a slow process, first a referendum, then a (heavily contested) formal secession from the Union, then a period to get their house in order and apply for formal EU membership which would then take another two to three years to hash out. I don't see this happening on a total timescale less than five years. And then there are still the questions of internal borders, Schengen and the Euro.

jacquesm 5y ago

Yes, but politicians aren't always rational and the Spanish have already voiced their concerns about this. The funny thing (well, not really funny, but given the situation there is something that borders on humor) to me is that England is absolutely adamant that Scotland can't secede from the Union when that is exactly what they just forced Scotland to be a part of with the EU. It boggles the mind how they twist themselves into the weirdest illogical pretzels arguing that when Scotland voted to stay in the Union that vote was binding even post Brexit, as if the circumstances haven't materially changed. We'll see how that one ends. But eventually the only thing that matters is the economy and for now that doesn't look all that good for the UK, the sooner they turn around the better for everybody. But Europe is not going to push for this, it will have to come from inside for it to work.

colinb 5y ago
how is that different that the Scots voting to leave the UK rather than remain part of the union? None of this is, or has to be logical. When I lived in Scotland I knew people who voted both for and against independence from the UK. Now, all of those people are pro-independence; and strongly in favor of an independent Scotland joining the EU. That might perhaps be optimistic - I don't know if the rest of the EU can convince a right-wing Spanish government to let a separatist Scotland in. Also, I think the idea that all that matters is the economy is glib nonsense. Whether people should vote with their emotions matters little, when they in fact do vote with their hearts. My own feelings on Scottish independence aside, I wonder if the Scottish Nationalists would have had more success in the last referendum if instead of making an (IMO rather weak) economic argument, they had stuck with the more emotional case for independence. "Yes, voting for separation from the UK will make us poorer for a time, but it'll be worth it to <sound of trumpets> be free." I am from a place that impoverished itself for most of a century via independence, but I don't think many of us would vote to back with our old imperial masters now.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I think joining the EU or not for a candidate country is first an economic advantage and second about freedom of movement. Nationalist sentiments ('free') are obviously going to have to take a backseat to those. So I don't see how a referendum on that using the dual theme of being 'free' and then immediately joining the EU would work in practice, that sounds like arguing both sides at the same time.

sofixa 5y ago

That's what Catalonia was, originally joining under Aragon crown with the Castille crown in a marriage. It was just a long time ago and multiple political and government (r)evolutions ( a few civil wars, revolutions, monarchy, republic, dictatorship) and it's now merely an autonomous region.

maxwell86 5y ago

The most important resource Scottland brings to the EU is destabilizing the UK, and setting an example for what happens when a country democracy decays down to the point of them making very poor political decisions “at the EU level”. In the EU nobody cares if you make bad political decisions at the local level, like in Poland or Hungary, but once you create 4 years of painful Brexit negotiations for all other countries involved, then people care about you wasting their time.

jacquesm 5y ago
Oh please. This whole setting an example business really has no connection to reality. The UK is in the driving seat here, destabilizing the UK benefits nobody but the financial powers in the UK figured that they'd rather be bigger fish in a much smaller pond that they control. The end result always was predictable. But Scotland and Ireland don't really benefit from 'The City' and as such lost a lot more than they gained. These side effects, conveniently ignored by the 'leave' camp come with a major cost attached, which will likely negate all of the gains.

timellis-smith 5y ago

I doubt Scotland would be allowed into the EU with its current budget deficit. From what I understand, it would need some serious austerity to be bought in line with EU accession laws.

jacquesm 5y ago
Compared to other countries already in the EU I don't see that as a huge problem, the Copenhagen criteria could be met. But regardless, it would always be a slow process, first a referendum, then a (heavily contested) formal secession from the Union, then a period to get their house in order and apply for formal EU membership which would then take another two to three years to hash out. I don't see this happening on a total timescale less than five years. And then there are still the questions of internal borders, Schengen and the Euro.