4 ms·

I didn't read the comments but 1. it could be flooded with pro cpp activists, it's a known fact that China pays people to influence forums 2. It may be difficu

I didn't read the comments but 1. it could be flooded with pro cpp activists, it's a known fact that China pays people to influence forums 2. It may be difficult to understand for Americans, but (I think) some people here are "pro-china" as they see China as an alternative to US imperialism, or at least something that can be less harmful. Personally, my wife is Taiwanese so I'm extremely concerned about China in a very concrete way. I'm not sure the people who advertise themselves as "pro-China" really have a sense of what's going on.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
freeflight 5y ago
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > Please return your 50 cents to the CCP. Bewildering to see this kind of ad hominem on HN.
    - flavius29663 5y ago
      even if that is true, it has nothing to do with how China does things. This is literally how the "whataboutism" got it's name, look it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History
      - freeflight 5y ago
        When China does things in the way the US does them, while the US goes angrily; "No, no! When you do it it's evil!", then it's very relevant to point out how both are doing these things. Particularly as the US's reach and impact is literally global; The free decentralized web does not exist anymore, by now it's not even a handful of US corporations who control the majority of web traffic [0], so the DoDBots are working with a home advantage that's pretty much global. It's gotten to a point where even established mainstream media are using US social media [1] as their "sources", rarely ever following up on the actual person behind the account. And the US does this in cooperation with their Five Eyes partners [2], so in addition to global reach and home advantage, they even have several teams on the same side playing the game. It's gotten so ever-present that the US had to change the Smith-Mund Act to make domestic government propaganda proper legal, just like it used to be in the USSR [3]. And that's exactly where a lot of these accusations against China come from. It's these outfits that flood social media with posts like "China transporting Uhyrus in trains, just like Nazi Germany!". It's these outfits that turn some "It's regulated in China" into "Omg it's banned and they gonna organ harvest you for breaking the rule!" FUD. The very same outfits were behind Saddam's people shredder, and organizing fake witnesses for US hearings [4]. Creating a bunch of sock puppet accounts is just a regularly Monday morning for them. [0] https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.htm... [1] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-ope... [2] https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      It is not a personal attack. It is an attack on the argument. Anytime somebody says something negative about the CCP people always bring up the west. It is not relevant to the conversation and is a common tactic of anti west / pro CCP people to deflect.
      - ashwagary 5y ago
        I'm not sure it's always whataboutism, it's many times just comparison. People in the west don't tend to have an objective view of who they are and how their bevaior is seen by other people on this planet. Some of the western criticism of emerging powers is hilarious/ironic/rife with hypocrisy when viewed through a non-western lens.
      - oblak 5y ago
        Whataboutism is very relevant. If A is accusing B of eating babies, then why shouldn't B - or anyone, for that matter - not point out that A is also eating babies and raping old ladies? What you call "pro CCP people" is just people outside the sphere of influence of A. In your environment it's been normalized to hate on China for any reason. You're likely being brainwashed 24/7 or a paid troll.
        _-david-_ 5y ago
        Whataboutism has nothing to do with morality. If country A does something bad it doesn't mean that it is not actually bad because country B did something similar. Do you find it interesting that anytime there is a thread about the US doing something bad that nobody jumps in and say well China did the same thing? It only goes one way. That is why I am calling it out. The reason why it goes one way is because people who support the west know their side has done bad things. People who support China refuse to accept it. You cannot accept any criticism of the CCP and somehow I am brainwashed? I understand the US and other western countries have done and continue to do bad things. I just don't bring it up when it is not related to the topic at hand.
        oblak 5y ago
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  This is a great example of one of the tactics CCP deploys. Whataboutism. As shown to be actually happening (does not give facts showing it happens on HN but I personally think it's reasonable, or at least not unfathomable) by this recent HN top thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29654137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29654137
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > This is a great example of one of the tactics CCP deploys. Whataboutism. And comments like this are a great example of propaganda methods employed by nation states since even before WWI [0]; "All who doubt our propaganda are traitors." It's also nothing really new for me, I got plenty of similar insults and accusations thrown at me, mostly by Americans, when I opposed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. I was called a "terrorist supporter" and "freedom hater" for not just running after blatant lies. Wasn't alone with that, large parts of the world felt similar, literally the largest protest event in human history [0] In that context this whole situation feels like quite the dejavu; It's the same Five Eyes countries leading the charge, it's the same organization peddling lies. Yet bringing up these similarities shall be considered "propaganda" because "Bringing up Iraq is something that only Russian/Chinese trolls do!". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time#Reception_and_significance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time#Receptio...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

freeflight 5y ago

_-david-_ 5y ago
- freeflight 5y ago
  > Please return your 50 cents to the CCP. Bewildering to see this kind of ad hominem on HN.
  - flavius29663 5y ago
    even if that is true, it has nothing to do with how China does things. This is literally how the "whataboutism" got it's name, look it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History
    - freeflight 5y ago
      When China does things in the way the US does them, while the US goes angrily; "No, no! When you do it it's evil!", then it's very relevant to point out how both are doing these things. Particularly as the US's reach and impact is literally global; The free decentralized web does not exist anymore, by now it's not even a handful of US corporations who control the majority of web traffic [0], so the DoDBots are working with a home advantage that's pretty much global. It's gotten to a point where even established mainstream media are using US social media [1] as their "sources", rarely ever following up on the actual person behind the account. And the US does this in cooperation with their Five Eyes partners [2], so in addition to global reach and home advantage, they even have several teams on the same side playing the game. It's gotten so ever-present that the US had to change the Smith-Mund Act to make domestic government propaganda proper legal, just like it used to be in the USSR [3]. And that's exactly where a lot of these accusations against China come from. It's these outfits that flood social media with posts like "China transporting Uhyrus in trains, just like Nazi Germany!". It's these outfits that turn some "It's regulated in China" into "Omg it's banned and they gonna organ harvest you for breaking the rule!" FUD. The very same outfits were behind Saddam's people shredder, and organizing fake witnesses for US hearings [4]. Creating a bunch of sock puppet accounts is just a regularly Monday morning for them. [0] https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.htm... [1] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-ope... [2] https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    It is not a personal attack. It is an attack on the argument. Anytime somebody says something negative about the CCP people always bring up the west. It is not relevant to the conversation and is a common tactic of anti west / pro CCP people to deflect.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      I'm not sure it's always whataboutism, it's many times just comparison. People in the west don't tend to have an objective view of who they are and how their bevaior is seen by other people on this planet. Some of the western criticism of emerging powers is hilarious/ironic/rife with hypocrisy when viewed through a non-western lens.
    - oblak 5y ago
      Whataboutism is very relevant. If A is accusing B of eating babies, then why shouldn't B - or anyone, for that matter - not point out that A is also eating babies and raping old ladies? What you call "pro CCP people" is just people outside the sphere of influence of A. In your environment it's been normalized to hate on China for any reason. You're likely being brainwashed 24/7 or a paid troll.
      - _-david-_ 5y ago
        Whataboutism has nothing to do with morality. If country A does something bad it doesn't mean that it is not actually bad because country B did something similar. Do you find it interesting that anytime there is a thread about the US doing something bad that nobody jumps in and say well China did the same thing? It only goes one way. That is why I am calling it out. The reason why it goes one way is because people who support the west know their side has done bad things. People who support China refuse to accept it. You cannot accept any criticism of the CCP and somehow I am brainwashed? I understand the US and other western countries have done and continue to do bad things. I just don't bring it up when it is not related to the topic at hand.
        oblak 5y ago
dillondoyle 5y ago
This is a great example of one of the tactics CCP deploys. Whataboutism. As shown to be actually happening (does not give facts showing it happens on HN but I personally think it's reasonable, or at least not unfathomable) by this recent HN top thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29654137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29654137
- freeflight 5y ago
  > This is a great example of one of the tactics CCP deploys. Whataboutism. And comments like this are a great example of propaganda methods employed by nation states since even before WWI [0]; "All who doubt our propaganda are traitors." It's also nothing really new for me, I got plenty of similar insults and accusations thrown at me, mostly by Americans, when I opposed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. I was called a "terrorist supporter" and "freedom hater" for not just running after blatant lies. Wasn't alone with that, large parts of the world felt similar, literally the largest protest event in human history [0] In that context this whole situation feels like quite the dejavu; It's the same Five Eyes countries leading the charge, it's the same organization peddling lies. Yet bringing up these similarities shall be considered "propaganda" because "Bringing up Iraq is something that only Russian/Chinese trolls do!". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time#Reception_and_significance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time#Receptio...