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"we've always been at war with eastasia" The major problem I see, is that every major power uses propaganda to their benefit, yet even highly intelligent peopl

"we've always been at war with eastasia" The major problem I see, is that every major power uses propaganda to their benefit, yet even highly intelligent people often don't see the propaganda of their native (or chosen) home. I see the propaganda of China, Russia as well as the one of the US and Europe. There are no white, selfless knights around. There never were. Does that mean that nothing matters, that (subjective) morale suddenly is meaningless? Of course it doesn't! But it puts "them vs us" into perspective. Humans are humans and act like humans all around the world.

cosmodisk 5y ago
Well it's the first page from 'Politics for Dummies': find an enemy and blame it for everything. If there's no enemy,create one or even imagine one.
- tristor 5y ago
  And if you already have an enemy and they’re doing horrible things, don’t look the gift horse in the mouth, tell people about it. Comparing China’s bad behavior to the bad behavior of the West is a false equivalence on every aspect. It is clear that the West also has (or had) bad behavior, but bringing it up is a form of whataboutism to distract from the much worse behavior happening right now in China.
  - OtomotO 5y ago
    No it is not. All this whataboutism talk is besides the point. I am not saying what China is doing is right, I am saying that others are equally worse and we should deal with that TOO. And yes, the US invading foreign soil is equally bad.
axiosgunnar 5y ago
Of course I see Western propaganda, but at least Western propaganda pretends to benefit me. So I would rather pretend to believe in Western progaganda than Chinese propaganda. „Humans are humans“ is dangerously naive in a world full of thug nations.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Pretends to benefit you? Example, please?
- nsv 5y ago
  Propaganda does not benifit you. It benifits the state. To think that the state's goals are your own is a symptom of being poisoned by propaganda.
enaaem 5y ago
There is no such thing as unbiased news. But here in the west I can (legally) read Chinese state news and get the other side of the story. The other way around is not possible.
polotics 5y ago
That is one big false équivalence. The mistreatment of minorities by the CCP is not the same thing as the mistreatment of minorities by the USA. Or did I miss the news about the black lives matter forced sterilisations?
- lmz 5y ago
  You missed the part where the USA killed off most of the native population of its western side and drove them off their lands, yes. Different times, but maybe that's just the thing to do to get to superpower status and China's just catching up.
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    No one missed this because Americans are educated in these atrocities from their early years in school. On the other hand, such a record of atrocities committed by the CCP is not taught in Chinese schools. The Hundred Flowers Campaign, the reconstitution of Tibet and the sending of its natives to work camps by the half million have been erased from the record.
    - bigcat123 5y ago
      > sending of its natives to work camps by the half million Never heard of this event. Mind to provide a link with more details?
      - emptysongglass 5y ago
        I should have put the link in my original comment, thank you for asking. It's at [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54260732 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54260732
        bigcat123 5y ago
        Thanks, this is what the major part of the report. > The report, authored by Adrian Zenz, an independent Tibet and Xinjiang researcher, says that 500,000 people, mostly subsistence farmers and herders, were trained in the first seven months of 2020 and authorities have set quotas for the mass transfer of those workers within Tibet and to other parts of China. One thing I hate about mainstream media reporting is that they never link to the source material. Just from the above description, I cannot see that these people are forced in anyway. And deriving such numbers from public Chinese government documents is not accurate either, as certain words can be easily misunderstood given the sinophobia sentiment nowadays.
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
> I see the propaganda of China, Russia as well as the one of the US and Europe. This is a huge false equivalence. You won't see Chinese citizens publicly in favor of US/Europe but you will damn well see it the other way around. E.g., some of my coworkers genuinely think it is ok for China to ban Western companies in the name of harmony but the US introducing the slightest of regulations is seen as fascism. A discussion like this can't happen inside China on a popular platform.
- _tik_ 5y ago
  I though US maintains list of black listed companies
  - cscurmudgeon 5y ago
    You really think the cases are equivalent? TikTok is allowed unabated in the US. Twitter is blocked in China. This sort of false equivalency discussion is getting really annoying. Even Hacker News is partly blocked in China. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600787 If the US follows China's policies symmetrically, a ton more companies would be blacklisted.
- 1078249029 5y ago
  [dead]

cosmodisk 5y ago

Well it's the first page from 'Politics for Dummies': find an enemy and blame it for everything. If there's no enemy,create one or even imagine one.

tristor 5y ago
And if you already have an enemy and they’re doing horrible things, don’t look the gift horse in the mouth, tell people about it. Comparing China’s bad behavior to the bad behavior of the West is a false equivalence on every aspect. It is clear that the West also has (or had) bad behavior, but bringing it up is a form of whataboutism to distract from the much worse behavior happening right now in China.
- OtomotO 5y ago
  No it is not. All this whataboutism talk is besides the point. I am not saying what China is doing is right, I am saying that others are equally worse and we should deal with that TOO. And yes, the US invading foreign soil is equally bad.

axiosgunnar 5y ago

Of course I see Western propaganda, but at least Western propaganda pretends to benefit me. So I would rather pretend to believe in Western progaganda than Chinese propaganda. „Humans are humans“ is dangerously naive in a world full of thug nations.

medstrom 5y ago
Pretends to benefit you? Example, please?
nsv 5y ago
Propaganda does not benifit you. It benifits the state. To think that the state's goals are your own is a symptom of being poisoned by propaganda.

enaaem 5y ago

There is no such thing as unbiased news. But here in the west I can (legally) read Chinese state news and get the other side of the story. The other way around is not possible.

polotics 5y ago

That is one big false équivalence. The mistreatment of minorities by the CCP is not the same thing as the mistreatment of minorities by the USA. Or did I miss the news about the black lives matter forced sterilisations?

lmz 5y ago
You missed the part where the USA killed off most of the native population of its western side and drove them off their lands, yes. Different times, but maybe that's just the thing to do to get to superpower status and China's just catching up.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  No one missed this because Americans are educated in these atrocities from their early years in school. On the other hand, such a record of atrocities committed by the CCP is not taught in Chinese schools. The Hundred Flowers Campaign, the reconstitution of Tibet and the sending of its natives to work camps by the half million have been erased from the record.
  - bigcat123 5y ago
    > sending of its natives to work camps by the half million Never heard of this event. Mind to provide a link with more details?
    - emptysongglass 5y ago
      I should have put the link in my original comment, thank you for asking. It's at [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54260732 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54260732
      - bigcat123 5y ago
        Thanks, this is what the major part of the report. > The report, authored by Adrian Zenz, an independent Tibet and Xinjiang researcher, says that 500,000 people, mostly subsistence farmers and herders, were trained in the first seven months of 2020 and authorities have set quotas for the mass transfer of those workers within Tibet and to other parts of China. One thing I hate about mainstream media reporting is that they never link to the source material. Just from the above description, I cannot see that these people are forced in anyway. And deriving such numbers from public Chinese government documents is not accurate either, as certain words can be easily misunderstood given the sinophobia sentiment nowadays.

cscurmudgeon 5y ago

> I see the propaganda of China, Russia as well as the one of the US and Europe. This is a huge false equivalence. You won't see Chinese citizens publicly in favor of US/Europe but you will damn well see it the other way around. E.g., some of my coworkers genuinely think it is ok for China to ban Western companies in the name of harmony but the US introducing the slightest of regulations is seen as fascism. A discussion like this can't happen inside China on a popular platform.

_tik_ 5y ago
I though US maintains list of black listed companies
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  You really think the cases are equivalent? TikTok is allowed unabated in the US. Twitter is blocked in China. This sort of false equivalency discussion is getting really annoying. Even Hacker News is partly blocked in China. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600787 If the US follows China's policies symmetrically, a ton more companies would be blacklisted.
1078249029 5y ago
[dead]