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Standard practice anywhere you have Chinese people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Unfortunately the rest aren’t

by rosndo 5y ago

Standard practice anywhere you have Chinese people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Unfortunately the rest aren’t willing or able to do anything about the genocide cheerleader squad.

simonh 5y ago
The communist party party has successfully managed to associate love of China with loyalty to the party and government, and criticism of the party with being “anti-Chinese”. So being pro-democracy in Hong Kong is being anti-China, and opposing the ethnic and cultural suppression in Xinjiang is China hating. My wife is Chinese and we have a Chinese friend here in the UK we have to be careful what we say to. She gets upset if anything critical of the Chinese government comes up, because she “loves China”. We love China too, just not the communist party.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  > We love China too, just not the communist party. I lived in singapore for 10 years until recently moving to Taiwan, this is basically the view of everyone from China I met. “I love China but I hate the government, that’s why I left” It’s a shame because the actions of the CCP are making people blame Chinese people. But the majority of people from China that I’ve met are awesome.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Well yeah, you're self selecting for people who a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics CCP maintains considerable support among the mainland population.
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      Well we don’t know what the support is truly like inside China. But I think it’s safe to assume that there are a lot of people inside china who unfortunately do not have the luxury of being able to move their family overseas.
    - torstenvl 5y ago
      > a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics This is a weird form of racism I see from a lot of people coming from a Chinese perspective, and it's very arrogant and abrasive. When a Chinese person is outside of China, they are the foreigner. Walking around the U.S. and calling people laowai is really a... questionable choice.
      - simonh 5y ago
        It’s simply writing about Chinese attitudes and experiences when abroad, and therefore using phrasing from the point of view of the person in question.
        whimsicalism 5y ago
        Thank you.
      - whoevercares 5y ago
        It’s more of a lost in translation - we use _laowai_ as a convenient word. When I just came to US, I sometimes still “translate” what I want to express from Chinese first, so I even called the other fellow US students “foreigner” once when talking about a cultural difference. “Foreigners tends to do XXX while we(Chinese) do YYY” He laughed and thought it was funny
    - jquery 5y ago
      Some in the mainland population are smart enough not to give their real opinions. It’s not safe unless you no longer live in China (and even then, it’s not safe, as the government can retaliate against the person’s family). I don’t doubt that the CCP maintains considerable support, but considering they control the media, that’s less impressive than you think it is.
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      >CCP maintains considerable support among the mainland population How much of that is genuine support vs saying the party line to avoid persecution?
Ostrogodsky 5y ago
Standard practice anywhere you have... people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Just a cursory reading of the comments in any topic about China will show you that their western counterparts are alive and kicking here
- rosndo 5y ago
  Bullshit. Shit like this is almost exclusively a Chinese activity https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns-tactics-used-to-censor-chinese-students-on-u-s-campuses https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns... You can find countless examples of groups of Chinese people engaging in downright horrible behavior like this, good luck finding many western counterparts. Where are the western nationalists SWATting families of people who dare to say critical things of their governments? Nobody will send the secret police to harass my family if I dare to criticize my government, but if I was Chinese they certainly would. I’m sure it would be possible to indoctrinate westerners to behave in a similar way, but the fact remains that currently it’s the Chinese who are uniquely indoctrinated.
  - Ostrogodsky 5y ago
    I dont know if you are being naive or a troll. In any case, for the benefit of other people reading this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-media-destruction-gary-webb/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-m... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-dissent/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-... https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-fbi-meddling-politics-comey https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-...
    - foepys 5y ago
      This is bad. But the fact that you can post links to articles written by journalists here is proof enough that this was not okay and unacceptable. Do you have articles about similar things happening in China by Chinese media?

by rosndo 5y ago

simonh 5y ago

The communist party party has successfully managed to associate love of China with loyalty to the party and government, and criticism of the party with being “anti-Chinese”. So being pro-democracy in Hong Kong is being anti-China, and opposing the ethnic and cultural suppression in Xinjiang is China hating. My wife is Chinese and we have a Chinese friend here in the UK we have to be careful what we say to. She gets upset if anything critical of the Chinese government comes up, because she “loves China”. We love China too, just not the communist party.

philliphaydon 5y ago
> We love China too, just not the communist party. I lived in singapore for 10 years until recently moving to Taiwan, this is basically the view of everyone from China I met. “I love China but I hate the government, that’s why I left” It’s a shame because the actions of the CCP are making people blame Chinese people. But the majority of people from China that I’ve met are awesome.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Well yeah, you're self selecting for people who a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics CCP maintains considerable support among the mainland population.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    Well we don’t know what the support is truly like inside China. But I think it’s safe to assume that there are a lot of people inside china who unfortunately do not have the luxury of being able to move their family overseas.
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    > a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics This is a weird form of racism I see from a lot of people coming from a Chinese perspective, and it's very arrogant and abrasive. When a Chinese person is outside of China, they are the foreigner. Walking around the U.S. and calling people laowai is really a... questionable choice.
    - simonh 5y ago
      It’s simply writing about Chinese attitudes and experiences when abroad, and therefore using phrasing from the point of view of the person in question.
      - whimsicalism 5y ago
        Thank you.
    - whoevercares 5y ago
      It’s more of a lost in translation - we use _laowai_ as a convenient word. When I just came to US, I sometimes still “translate” what I want to express from Chinese first, so I even called the other fellow US students “foreigner” once when talking about a cultural difference. “Foreigners tends to do XXX while we(Chinese) do YYY” He laughed and thought it was funny
  - jquery 5y ago
    Some in the mainland population are smart enough not to give their real opinions. It’s not safe unless you no longer live in China (and even then, it’s not safe, as the government can retaliate against the person’s family). I don’t doubt that the CCP maintains considerable support, but considering they control the media, that’s less impressive than you think it is.
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    >CCP maintains considerable support among the mainland population How much of that is genuine support vs saying the party line to avoid persecution?

Ostrogodsky 5y ago

Standard practice anywhere you have... people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Just a cursory reading of the comments in any topic about China will show you that their western counterparts are alive and kicking here

rosndo 5y ago
Bullshit. Shit like this is almost exclusively a Chinese activity https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns-tactics-used-to-censor-chinese-students-on-u-s-campuses https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns... You can find countless examples of groups of Chinese people engaging in downright horrible behavior like this, good luck finding many western counterparts. Where are the western nationalists SWATting families of people who dare to say critical things of their governments? Nobody will send the secret police to harass my family if I dare to criticize my government, but if I was Chinese they certainly would. I’m sure it would be possible to indoctrinate westerners to behave in a similar way, but the fact remains that currently it’s the Chinese who are uniquely indoctrinated.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago
  I dont know if you are being naive or a troll. In any case, for the benefit of other people reading this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-media-destruction-gary-webb/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-m... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-dissent/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-... https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-fbi-meddling-politics-comey https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-...
  - foepys 5y ago
    This is bad. But the fact that you can post links to articles written by journalists here is proof enough that this was not okay and unacceptable. Do you have articles about similar things happening in China by Chinese media?