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What is going on here with the comment section? Seems like it's flooded with pro ccp activists

• rosndo 5y ago
  Standard practice anywhere you have Chinese people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Unfortunately the rest aren’t willing or able to do anything about the genocide cheerleader squad.
  • simonh 5y ago
    The communist party party has successfully managed to associate love of China with loyalty to the party and government, and criticism of the party with being “anti-Chinese”. So being pro-democracy in Hong Kong is being anti-China, and opposing the ethnic and cultural suppression in Xinjiang is China hating. My wife is Chinese and we have a Chinese friend here in the UK we have to be careful what we say to. She gets upset if anything critical of the Chinese government comes up, because she “loves China”. We love China too, just not the communist party.
    • philliphaydon 5y ago
      > We love China too, just not the communist party. I lived in singapore for 10 years until recently moving to Taiwan, this is basically the view of everyone from China I met. “I love China but I hate the government, that’s why I left” It’s a shame because the actions of the CCP are making people blame Chinese people. But the majority of people from China that I’ve met are awesome.
      • whimsicalism 5y ago
        Well yeah, you're self selecting for people who a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics CCP maintains considerable support among the mainland population.
        • philliphaydon 5y ago
          Well we don’t know what the support is truly like inside China. But I think it’s safe to assume that there are a lot of people inside china who unfortunately do not have the luxury of being able to move their family overseas.
        • torstenvl 5y ago
          > a. Left China b. Are talking to a foreigner about politics This is a weird form of racism I see from a lot of people coming from a Chinese perspective, and it's very arrogant and abrasive. When a Chinese person is outside of China, they are the foreigner. Walking around the U.S. and calling people laowai is really a... questionable choice.
          • simonh 5y ago
            It’s simply writing about Chinese attitudes and experiences when abroad, and therefore using phrasing from the point of view of the person in question.
            • whimsicalism 5y ago
              Thank you.
          • whoevercares 5y ago
            It’s more of a lost in translation - we use _laowai_ as a convenient word. When I just came to US, I sometimes still “translate” what I want to express from Chinese first, so I even called the other fellow US students “foreigner” once when talking about a cultural difference. “Foreigners tends to do XXX while we(Chinese) do YYY” He laughed and thought it was funny
        • jquery 5y ago
          Some in the mainland population are smart enough not to give their real opinions. It’s not safe unless you no longer live in China (and even then, it’s not safe, as the government can retaliate against the person’s family). I don’t doubt that the CCP maintains considerable support, but considering they control the media, that’s less impressive than you think it is.
  • Ostrogodsky 5y ago
    Standard practice anywhere you have... people, most are perfectly reasonable but many are deeply indoctrinated nationalists. Just a cursory reading of the comments in any topic about China will show you that their western counterparts are alive and kicking here
    • rosndo 5y ago
      Bullshit. Shit like this is almost exclusively a Chinese activity https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns-tactics-used-to-censor-chinese-students-on-u-s-campuses https://www.propublica.org/article/purdue-president-condemns... You can find countless examples of groups of Chinese people engaging in downright horrible behavior like this, good luck finding many western counterparts. Where are the western nationalists SWATting families of people who dare to say critical things of their governments? Nobody will send the secret police to harass my family if I dare to criticize my government, but if I was Chinese they certainly would. I’m sure it would be possible to indoctrinate westerners to behave in a similar way, but the fact remains that currently it’s the Chinese who are uniquely indoctrinated.
      • Ostrogodsky 5y ago
        I dont know if you are being naive or a troll. In any case, for the benefit of other people reading this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-media-destruction-gary-webb/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-m... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-dissent/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/22/terrorism-fbi-political-... https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-fbi-meddling-politics-comey https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/5/13533838/history-...
        • foepys 5y ago
          This is bad. But the fact that you can post links to articles written by journalists here is proof enough that this was not okay and unacceptable. Do you have articles about similar things happening in China by Chinese media?
• dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago
  You'll find the same with any article critical of China. The party is paying people (quite well) to defend China online. It's another kind of misinformation campaign.
  • miohtama 5y ago
    You can also check the comment history of these people to see if they are outright government trolls or brainwashed university students. Sometimes it is pretty clear.
    • robbedpeter 5y ago
      It's not always brainwashing and indoctrination, it can also be the threat to family social standing, political scrutiny, and the ability to travel freely. If they have family or close friends that already have trouble with the state, China makes exquisite use of those factors in controlling people.
  • pell 5y ago
    Always interesting to see what kind of mindblowing absurdities they come up with to defend the horrendous acts against the Uighur people. I also see it in German comment sections at this point.
  • nowherebeen 5y ago
    There are definitely signs of them here. I have another thread that had someone trying to steer my comment into a East vs West argument just for mentioning China. It seems like they are trying to pick fights out of nowhere as if they are getting paid. And if you notice, they come at certain hours like there is suddenly a wave of them all at once.
    • foverzar 5y ago
      "It seems like they are trying to pick fights out of nowhere as if..." ...that is what people generally do on the internet, when they disagree.
• tombh 5y ago
  I must offer another data point. I'm British, and often find myself in these threads criticising criticism of China. Not because I'm being paid by the CCP, but because I believe that mainstream anti-Chinese sentiment tells us more about the West's psychological struggles to come to terms with its own historically unprecedented imperial past, than it does about China itself.
  • andrepd 5y ago
    What does criticism of authoritarian censorship today have to do with imperialism? Sounds just like an attempt to muddy the waters tbh
    • tombh 5y ago
      I believe the psychological process involved is the malignant form of projection[1]. To give a metaphor: when I know myself that I've not been productive enough at work (and I secretly berate myself for it), I mis-perceive perfectly normal gestures of encouragement as personal attacks. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
  • kmlx 5y ago
    > West's psychological struggles to come to terms with its own historically unprecedented imperial past, than it does about China itself. oh come on. we criticise China because it’s whole political system, that was set up very recently btw, fights against basic rights we take for granted in the West. not because of what the romans or european empires did hundreds of years ago, but because of what China is doing right now.
    • ahelwer 5y ago
      Those rights are available domestically in the West, yes, at least for the time being. Those same rights have never been extended to the citizens of the countries whose democratic governments were toppled or subverted by what we call the West. But hey, here in the imperial core we are quite comfortable. So this state of being must represent our ideals!
• mrjin 5y ago
  How do you tell that?
  • rocknor 5y ago
    • whycombinatore 5y ago
      • rocknor 5y ago
• yodsanklai 5y ago
  I didn't read the comments but 1. it could be flooded with pro cpp activists, it's a known fact that China pays people to influence forums 2. It may be difficult to understand for Americans, but (I think) some people here are "pro-china" as they see China as an alternative to US imperialism, or at least something that can be less harmful. Personally, my wife is Taiwanese so I'm extremely concerned about China in a very concrete way. I'm not sure the people who advertise themselves as "pro-China" really have a sense of what's going on.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • freeflight 5y ago
    • _-david-_ 5y ago
      • freeflight 5y ago
        > Please return your 50 cents to the CCP. Bewildering to see this kind of ad hominem on HN.
        • flavius29663 5y ago
          even if that is true, it has nothing to do with how China does things. This is literally how the "whataboutism" got it's name, look it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#History
          • freeflight 5y ago
            When China does things in the way the US does them, while the US goes angrily; "No, no! When you do it it's evil!", then it's very relevant to point out how both are doing these things. Particularly as the US's reach and impact is literally global; The free decentralized web does not exist anymore, by now it's not even a handful of US corporations who control the majority of web traffic [0], so the DoDBots are working with a home advantage that's pretty much global. It's gotten to a point where even established mainstream media are using US social media [1] as their "sources", rarely ever following up on the actual person behind the account. And the US does this in cooperation with their Five Eyes partners [2], so in addition to global reach and home advantage, they even have several teams on the same side playing the game. It's gotten so ever-present that the US had to change the Smith-Mund Act to make domestic government propaganda proper legal, just like it used to be in the USSR [3]. And that's exactly where a lot of these accusations against China come from. It's these outfits that flood social media with posts like "China transporting Uhyrus in trains, just like Nazi Germany!". It's these outfits that turn some "It's regulated in China" into "Omg it's banned and they gonna organ harvest you for breaking the rule!" FUD. The very same outfits were behind Saddam's people shredder, and organizing fake witnesses for US hearings [4]. Creating a bunch of sock puppet accounts is just a regularly Monday morning for them. [0] https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.htm... [1] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-ope... [2] https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
• the_af 5y ago
  Can you provide some examples of this alleged "flood of pro CCP activists" in this comments section? I'm reading some minor disagreements. Is this activism in your worldview?
  • Lendal 5y ago
    • the_af 5y ago
      Please provide one example in this comments section. Ideally many, since an alleged "flood" cannot be composed of a single drop, but a single example would also suffice. Please don't refer obliquely to some "situation", be specific. The example must convince me that the person you're quoting is indeed engaging in "activism" for the CCP and not merely expressing their opinion. Otherwise, if you can't provide these examples, may I kindly suggest what you're encountering is the normal range of opinions in the internet, only this time it's about a subject you feel strongly about? PS: is obliquely accusing people on HN of being shills something allowed by the guidelines? Think about this.
      • alkonaut 5y ago
        Hopefully these comments are swiftly removed, so you’d have to screenshot them to share them.
      • jquery 5y ago
        Many of them are dead comments, already. I don’t think there’s a flood, myself, but rather heterogeneous opinions largely based on whether China’s dictatorship is viewed as a positive alternative to American imperialism. Having lived in both countries myself, I’d prefer America 10 times out of 10, but that wasn’t always the case. Xi in particular has been a terrible thing for China. Imagine if Trump became dictator (and was a decade younger). That’s Xi. He’s made the country more racist and closed off in every way. It’s a tragedy to see.
        • 5y ago
• stared 5y ago
  I am European and not affiliated in any way with China. And don't want to whitewash them. Still, there is a double standard regarding China vs the Western World. While China gets (IMHO deserved) criticism for their territorial claims and human right abuse, the Iraq War (over 400k deaths) was "business as usual". The same goes with anti-pandemic restrictions - when it happens in China, it's an authoritarian rule. When in the West - it's social responsibility. When China started vaccinating children, I saw an article with "child soldiers" and a photo of a crying kid. The same action in the West had a picture of a smiling kid, and a more welcoming title. Or even when it comes to pollution and worker's rights, the West is hypocritical. Blames China, while happily outsources most heavy industry there, due to lower costs. (When was the last time you bought some electronics and there were not "Manufactured in PRL"?)
  • emptysongglass 5y ago
    We're not discussing the US, we're discussing the latest abuse of power by the CCP. That's where the link goes. Would you like to next make a false equivalence of US prison labor to slave labor in China? Because that's where this goes, every thread. Submit a link of the US' latest atrocity to HN. A world of tolerance allows and accepts the stories of violence perpetrated by all actors. The reason you are seeing so many related to China is we have some new flagrant human rights abuse happening from the CCP every week, sometimes multiple times a week, that's why you see so many of these stories percolate to the top. Just two days ago, the CCP tore down the statue commemorating the Tiananmen Square massacre in Hong Kong. [1] This is the screaming of the machine doing its work of control, every day of every week. The memories of them will be inhaled whole and exhaled as dust, a phantom of a thing that never truly existed. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59764029 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59764029
    • atomicity 5y ago
      The commenter you replied to seemed to be comparing 2 situations. That seems normal to me. Comparing things seems to be great way to understand complex issues. What makes the comment a wrong way to discuss? Is it a bad form of comparison for some reason?
• charcircuit 5y ago
  Not everyone who disagrees with you is an activist. It's possible for people to have different information than you or have different values than you.
• pessimizer 5y ago
  Really? As somebody constantly accused of being a Chinese bot for not agreeing that the Chinese government is a manifestation of absolute evil that the world needs to destroy in order to save, these threads all seem to be filled with anti-Chinese hypernationalists.
• gentleman11 5y ago
  On hn, we should try to engage with peoples ideas, and be careful about attributing motives and dismissing people. That said, I’ve seen a lot of pro ccp posts in the last few months. If we hypothetically say there are state manipulators on hn becoming active, what is the most mature way to respond to the situation?
  • KwisatzHaderack 5y ago
    The most mature way would be to debate their claims with logic, data, sources, etc.
    • throw10920 5y ago
      ...and, if you suspect that there's actual manipulation going on (as there are a lot of Chinese nationals, real people, who earnestly believe in the points that they're making, on HN), then email hn@ycombinator.com and they'll use their admin powers to take a look at it.
• yibg 5y ago
  People have different opinions and are free to voice them. I’m not pro ccp (but here I feel the need to clarify up front), but it’s not hard to understand that some people view china more favorably than most in the US. At the very least it shouldn’t be hard to understand why some people would reject the more extreme anti china stance. edit: long way of me saying, I don’t think anyone that defends china should automatically be labeled ccp propaganda.