6 ms·

If you're on company-owned equipment during hours the company is paying you to work, why wouldn't it be acceptable? Without such capabilities, people could hide

If you're on company-owned equipment during hours the company is paying you to work, why wouldn't it be acceptable? Without such capabilities, people could hide any kind of traffic (from "I'll just check my social media while I'm here" to "I'll just upload some company secrets to my future employer" without recourse.

fulafel 5y ago
Sounds like you are from one of those cultures I referenced! To explain it in plain words: It's not acceptable because I have a human right to privacy. Yes, privacy allows people to "hide" stuff. It's not an overriding thing. Employment relationships, like rest of our society, are largely based on trust and respect.
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  You are indeed entitled to privacy on your own equipment. Why should you be entitled to privacy on employer-owned equipment?
  - okasaki 5y ago
    Are you entitled to privacy on employer-owned toilets?
    - aroundthfur 5y ago
      What exactly do you want to say with this? Are you comparing prevention of stealing intellectual property with taking a shit?
      - okasaki 5y ago
        No? I'm responding to the poster implying that we're not entitled to privacy on employer-owned equipment.
        Froedlich 5y ago
        Whether you're entitled to it or not, you'd be foolish to expect it. The last corporate IT job I had, they expected me to use my personal cell phone for job-related tasks. No, I didn't want their malware running on my phone, nor did I want to upgrade to an expensive cellular data plan for the required connectivity. If they wanted me to have a phone for their business, they should provide one. Management and HR were quite upset. I suggested they check the state Labor Board. Shortly after, I was given a purchase authorization to buy a company phone and service.
      - igetspam 5y ago
        If you're worried about theft, hopefully you've disabled Bluetooth and USB because I can move a hell of a lot of data without a network device. Also, if this is a legit concern, you may have a hiring problem (or you work for .gov or on .gov contracts exclusively.)
        Hnrobert42 5y ago
        It’s not just employees who leak data from corporate devices. Malware often exfiltrates data through compromised, “benign” websites.
    - Hnrobert42 5y ago
      Toilets are provided as a convenience by employers to perform entirely personal/non-business functions. A better an analogy would be a desk phone. Does the employer have the right to record phone calls if an announcement is made to all parties?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - fulafel 5y ago
    There's no reason why ownership of equipment would have a bearing on my basic rights, just like they have no effect on my enjoyment of other basic legally protected human rights.
    - alecbz 5y ago
      I mean, one can have whatever view of rights they choose, but many rights are often considered to be contextual. E.g., in the US, you have a right to not have your picture taken indoors, but outside in public spaces you don't have this right. You have a right to do more or less whatever you want with your personal laptop, but your agreement with your employer generally implies that you should only use a work computer for work tasks.
      - Froedlich 5y ago
        Each of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the various territories have different laws on that.
    - Hnrobert42 5y ago
      Let’s say I am a farmer who owns a tractor. I provide it to you to work my land. I request that you not use it on your adjacent farm. You agree. Do I have the right to watch where you drive it? I am not trying to trap you. I am genuinely trying to figure out where the lines are.
  - oasisbob 5y ago
    For the same reason I'd expect privacy in an employer-owned bathroom.
    - Hnrobert42 5y ago
      Interesting. That is a fair point. What if your employer provided you a laptop with two user accounts - one for work and one for personal business?
- blowfish721 5y ago
  Simply don’t use your company owned computer for personal stuff, period. I’ve worked in 1st line support and had my share of people calling in asking for help to erase their browsing history from porn urls. But the bottom line is, do you really want to be the one compromising the company you work for by visiting non-work related things? At least that’s the biggest reason for me to keep my work and private computers separate. Edit: I just want to add that I however wouldn’t agree with or work for a company that monitors my work computer to make sure I’m always ”working” (taking screenshots, tracking mouse and keyboard etc).
- ozim 5y ago
  Well take another example, you have human right to wear what you want like for example a swimsuit all day long. Somehow most people understand that swimsuit is appropriate on the beach and on the swimming pool and not in the office.
igetspam 5y ago
Because working in an environment of trust is way to retain employees. I don't expect people to try and steal secret, most of the time but I do expect them to take a few personal moments throughout the day. If I found that a company was monitoring my network traffic, I'd terminate the relationship.
- ozim 5y ago
  You are probably smart and aware of the dangers on the internet. There are people that need help keeping their work computers safe from malware and to prevent stuff to happen to them. I think there is false dichotomy that all monitoring is bad. Yes if they come to you and nag about browsing hacker news because they found out you are slacking here and there it is totally overstepping. If company decrypts traffic and has automated scanners to find out/block malware/bad sites I don't see an issue with that.
foepys 5y ago
German corporate culture is functioning without snooping around on employee's emails and chats. It's strictly forbidden by law and only allowed in very constrained circumstances when the employer has a strong suspicion ("Anfangsverdacht") that the employee is doing things they aren't allowed to. Even then the work council has to be informed and a representative has to be present to ensure no laws will be broken and privacy is preserved.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- closeparen 5y ago
  US laws, regulations, and B2B contracts tend to require employee surveillance - sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly under risk management - as part of the firm’s duty of care to customers. The customer has given the firm his money, his data, his health, etc. The firm must try to prevent abuse, and must have a forensic trail in case it happens. In the financial industry, it is strictly forbidden by law to miss reps talking to customers from their homes, on their personal devices and accounts. Banks are in the news getting fined for this routinely.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > In the financial industry, it is strictly forbidden by law to miss reps talking to customers from their homes, on their personal devices and accounts. But they're not snooping on your personal devices at home, so this wouldn't even catch that.
    - closeparen 5y ago
      The point of the fines is banks were negligent in not snooping at home. They are now correcting their behavior and doing so.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        Even banks still aren't snooping on people's personal devices at home.
mrfusion 5y ago
If I trusted my employees that little I wouldn’t trust them to work for me.

fulafel 5y ago

Sounds like you are from one of those cultures I referenced! To explain it in plain words: It's not acceptable because I have a human right to privacy. Yes, privacy allows people to "hide" stuff. It's not an overriding thing. Employment relationships, like rest of our society, are largely based on trust and respect.

Hnrobert42 5y ago
You are indeed entitled to privacy on your own equipment. Why should you be entitled to privacy on employer-owned equipment?
- okasaki 5y ago
  Are you entitled to privacy on employer-owned toilets?
  - aroundthfur 5y ago
    What exactly do you want to say with this? Are you comparing prevention of stealing intellectual property with taking a shit?
    - okasaki 5y ago
      No? I'm responding to the poster implying that we're not entitled to privacy on employer-owned equipment.
      - Froedlich 5y ago
        Whether you're entitled to it or not, you'd be foolish to expect it. The last corporate IT job I had, they expected me to use my personal cell phone for job-related tasks. No, I didn't want their malware running on my phone, nor did I want to upgrade to an expensive cellular data plan for the required connectivity. If they wanted me to have a phone for their business, they should provide one. Management and HR were quite upset. I suggested they check the state Labor Board. Shortly after, I was given a purchase authorization to buy a company phone and service.
    - igetspam 5y ago
      If you're worried about theft, hopefully you've disabled Bluetooth and USB because I can move a hell of a lot of data without a network device. Also, if this is a legit concern, you may have a hiring problem (or you work for .gov or on .gov contracts exclusively.)
      - Hnrobert42 5y ago
        It’s not just employees who leak data from corporate devices. Malware often exfiltrates data through compromised, “benign” websites.
  - Hnrobert42 5y ago
    Toilets are provided as a convenience by employers to perform entirely personal/non-business functions. A better an analogy would be a desk phone. Does the employer have the right to record phone calls if an announcement is made to all parties?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fulafel 5y ago
  There's no reason why ownership of equipment would have a bearing on my basic rights, just like they have no effect on my enjoyment of other basic legally protected human rights.
  - alecbz 5y ago
    I mean, one can have whatever view of rights they choose, but many rights are often considered to be contextual. E.g., in the US, you have a right to not have your picture taken indoors, but outside in public spaces you don't have this right. You have a right to do more or less whatever you want with your personal laptop, but your agreement with your employer generally implies that you should only use a work computer for work tasks.
    - Froedlich 5y ago
      Each of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the various territories have different laws on that.
  - Hnrobert42 5y ago
    Let’s say I am a farmer who owns a tractor. I provide it to you to work my land. I request that you not use it on your adjacent farm. You agree. Do I have the right to watch where you drive it? I am not trying to trap you. I am genuinely trying to figure out where the lines are.
- oasisbob 5y ago
  For the same reason I'd expect privacy in an employer-owned bathroom.
  - Hnrobert42 5y ago
    Interesting. That is a fair point. What if your employer provided you a laptop with two user accounts - one for work and one for personal business?
blowfish721 5y ago
Simply don’t use your company owned computer for personal stuff, period. I’ve worked in 1st line support and had my share of people calling in asking for help to erase their browsing history from porn urls. But the bottom line is, do you really want to be the one compromising the company you work for by visiting non-work related things? At least that’s the biggest reason for me to keep my work and private computers separate. Edit: I just want to add that I however wouldn’t agree with or work for a company that monitors my work computer to make sure I’m always ”working” (taking screenshots, tracking mouse and keyboard etc).
ozim 5y ago
Well take another example, you have human right to wear what you want like for example a swimsuit all day long. Somehow most people understand that swimsuit is appropriate on the beach and on the swimming pool and not in the office.

igetspam 5y ago

Because working in an environment of trust is way to retain employees. I don't expect people to try and steal secret, most of the time but I do expect them to take a few personal moments throughout the day. If I found that a company was monitoring my network traffic, I'd terminate the relationship.

ozim 5y ago
You are probably smart and aware of the dangers on the internet. There are people that need help keeping their work computers safe from malware and to prevent stuff to happen to them. I think there is false dichotomy that all monitoring is bad. Yes if they come to you and nag about browsing hacker news because they found out you are slacking here and there it is totally overstepping. If company decrypts traffic and has automated scanners to find out/block malware/bad sites I don't see an issue with that.

foepys 5y ago

German corporate culture is functioning without snooping around on employee's emails and chats. It's strictly forbidden by law and only allowed in very constrained circumstances when the employer has a strong suspicion ("Anfangsverdacht") that the employee is doing things they aren't allowed to. Even then the work council has to be informed and a representative has to be present to ensure no laws will be broken and privacy is preserved.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
closeparen 5y ago
US laws, regulations, and B2B contracts tend to require employee surveillance - sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly under risk management - as part of the firm’s duty of care to customers. The customer has given the firm his money, his data, his health, etc. The firm must try to prevent abuse, and must have a forensic trail in case it happens. In the financial industry, it is strictly forbidden by law to miss reps talking to customers from their homes, on their personal devices and accounts. Banks are in the news getting fined for this routinely.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > In the financial industry, it is strictly forbidden by law to miss reps talking to customers from their homes, on their personal devices and accounts. But they're not snooping on your personal devices at home, so this wouldn't even catch that.
  - closeparen 5y ago
    The point of the fines is banks were negligent in not snooping at home. They are now correcting their behavior and doing so.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Even banks still aren't snooping on people's personal devices at home.

mrfusion 5y ago

If I trusted my employees that little I wouldn’t trust them to work for me.