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I live in China and I feel the same. I can understand the high level corruption, and media uselessness reporting nothing of substance, sure, but that's very far

by xwolfi 5y ago

I live in China and I feel the same. I can understand the high level corruption, and media uselessness reporting nothing of substance, sure, but that's very far from how life in China seems to be perceived abroad. I guess like the author it depends also where exactly in China/Yougoslavia you live(d), as Im sure a migrant miner in the north doesnt have the same experience as an electronics trader in the south. But, I dont think it's that much worse than life in the U.S. even if it's certainly not far better. People who have no stake and a lot of comfort will care a lot about abstractions like freedom of speech on twitter reaching millions with aggressive opinions, but that's not so important: you can already discuss everything you want in private and the trend is sloooowly towards realizing we'll need public feedback in politics. Just the way the communists reacted to the HK elections is interesting: they watered down the challenge, certainly, but then they sang and sang the praises of elections... well then, does that mean as long as the candidates proclaim their communist purity on the mainland, we could also vote there for the executive or legislative powers?

vidarh 5y ago
Mainland China has multiple parties - they don't even need to proclaim "Communist purity". The other parties just won't get more power no matter how many votes they get. The CCP is not afraid of elections, but of opposition politicians allowed to actually speak their minds, and transparent elections. EDIT: whomever downvoted might want to look up political parties in China
- refurb 5y ago
  This is very true. China is no longer the old hardline communism of “throw dissidents up against the wall”. You can criticize the government, as long it’s about something that doesn’t threaten their hold on power. That’s true about most “freedoms” in China. If it doesn’t threaten the CCP, you’ll likely be admonished at most, and if you acquiesce, left alone. But I’d you cross the line (and you will be warned), you won’t be tolerated. And for the vast majority this is fine as long as they can put food on the table and their children have a future.
jowdones 5y ago
Communist systems are not that different from the standard democratic, US way of things. (I'm Romanian btw so used to be communist, now we're a democracy but the substance hasn't changed much). 1) US: has a two-party system, the "left" and the "right". Most democracies have the political power concentrated in just two parties - the "socialists" and the "conservatives", even though some minor contenders may exist on the scene and the main parties compete in bribing them so they can ensure majority. The two parties hate each other's guts and compete for resources (how much they will divert to their own pocket) but both know very well that the show must go on, so don't count on anything but a shallow surface-level "competition" between them. If the system really is in danger of changing and they might lose their grip, they won't hesitate to leave aside their differences and unite in their common goal of ensuring long term self-preservation. 2) Communist system has a two-party system: the "party" and the "police". The communist party and the secret police mirror exactly the deep antagony between the two parties of the democratic two-party system and also their just as deep complicity when it comes to long term continuity. It's just a matter of time until #2 realizes the only thing separating #1 from them is apparent legitimacy. Some level of oppressiveness is required for #2 and that's consuming resources, while #1 has the advantage that it frees those resources since they no longer have to force people in accepting the system but can tell them "you are free to make your own choice". So if and when those freely elected turn out to be the exact copy of the people they "replaced" you are free to f*k off and vote again next time, like that would change anything.

by xwolfi 5y ago

vidarh 5y ago

Mainland China has multiple parties - they don't even need to proclaim "Communist purity". The other parties just won't get more power no matter how many votes they get. The CCP is not afraid of elections, but of opposition politicians allowed to actually speak their minds, and transparent elections. EDIT: whomever downvoted might want to look up political parties in China

refurb 5y ago
This is very true. China is no longer the old hardline communism of “throw dissidents up against the wall”. You can criticize the government, as long it’s about something that doesn’t threaten their hold on power. That’s true about most “freedoms” in China. If it doesn’t threaten the CCP, you’ll likely be admonished at most, and if you acquiesce, left alone. But I’d you cross the line (and you will be warned), you won’t be tolerated. And for the vast majority this is fine as long as they can put food on the table and their children have a future.

jowdones 5y ago

Communist systems are not that different from the standard democratic, US way of things. (I'm Romanian btw so used to be communist, now we're a democracy but the substance hasn't changed much). 1) US: has a two-party system, the "left" and the "right". Most democracies have the political power concentrated in just two parties - the "socialists" and the "conservatives", even though some minor contenders may exist on the scene and the main parties compete in bribing them so they can ensure majority. The two parties hate each other's guts and compete for resources (how much they will divert to their own pocket) but both know very well that the show must go on, so don't count on anything but a shallow surface-level "competition" between them. If the system really is in danger of changing and they might lose their grip, they won't hesitate to leave aside their differences and unite in their common goal of ensuring long term self-preservation. 2) Communist system has a two-party system: the "party" and the "police". The communist party and the secret police mirror exactly the deep antagony between the two parties of the democratic two-party system and also their just as deep complicity when it comes to long term continuity. It's just a matter of time until #2 realizes the only thing separating #1 from them is apparent legitimacy. Some level of oppressiveness is required for #2 and that's consuming resources, while #1 has the advantage that it frees those resources since they no longer have to force people in accepting the system but can tell them "you are free to make your own choice". So if and when those freely elected turn out to be the exact copy of the people they "replaced" you are free to f*k off and vote again next time, like that would change anything.