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I grew up in Hungary where the socialist leadership (it is a very interesting fact how much they avoided the word communism and used socialism everywhere but I

by _ugfj 5y ago

I grew up in Hungary where the socialist leadership (it is a very interesting fact how much they avoided the word communism and used socialism everywhere but I digress) was hell bent on continuously raising the standard of living because Janos Kadar was afraid of another revolution. (As his deranged last speech in 1989 revealed, he had nightmares for decades of his comrade, Imre Nagy, the prime minister in 1956, whom he betrayed in 1956 and executed in 1957.) So we didn't have breadlines and politically charged prison sentences were long gone. Even Miklos Haraszti in 1973 only got a suspended eight months sentence for his book -- twenty years before he would've been executed for it, ten years before it would've been a several years non-suspended sentence. And I was a kid in the 80s which was even milder. But what I do remember is the hopelessness in the shadows of the prefabricated giant concrete buildings. That there's nothing exciting in the future, that we have no choice in our life that no matter what we do, we will live and die in those meagre surroundings. I have, from the age of 10, every afternoon spent a few hours on extra mathematics so that I can get into an elite school so that I can get into a Western university once I am 18. This was not something my parents hammered into me, this was something I wanted to do, desperately so. I remember telling my mother when I was 9 that I wanted to commit suicide which of course she didn't take seriously and then I made this plan to escape. I did get into the high school I wanted at 14 but my English wasn't good enough to get into MIT when I was 18 but that was not too bad because by 1993 of course that regime was over and there was hope again. Which, for me, was crushed in 2006 and I filed for a Canadian immigration visa and moved there in 2008.

sofixa 5y ago
> it is a very interesting fact how much they avoided the word communism and used socialism everywhere but I digress In Bulgaria the official line is that the country and regime are socialist, which is on the path to communism which everyone should work towards. There were even slogans in factories and other public places about this. The rest of your story is tragic. I'm sorry you had to live through such times.
- _ugfj 5y ago
  Yes, that was the line. So everything was called socialist this and socialist that.
torginus 5y ago
Well, if you want hopelessness I suggest you live in contemporary capitalist Hungary - in many ways, the country's fate is similar to the one described in the article, it has turned into a Western vassal, where nothing worth having, no company with meaningful profits is actually owned by Hungarians. The problems about life you've described in your post are still valid today - we the country has become a nearshore colony of western corporation, nothing you do or think up will as an intellectual will actually end up in the ownership of Hungarians. No interesting R&D will ever be conducted here - all the companies that built high-tech things, and all the research institutes collapsed like a house of cards during the 90s, or were bought up and watered down by the West. The political situation is somewhat similar to the one under Socialism - boy, I do hope you like the the current party, since any meaningful democratic transfer of power seems unlikely in the near future. The prices and taxes and salaries being what they are, the necessities of a basic, liveable middle-class life - a house, a car, some reserves for financial stability - is a pipe dream for even the educated upper-middle class - barring financial trickery, help from parents or working abroad. As for the concrete prefabs - while they were not aesthetic I agree - but the urban planning concept that surrounded them meant that they didn't just go up on their own, but they made sure everything - playgrounds, schools, pharmacies, stores was accessible in walking distance. The blocks were also mostly placed far apart enough, that one could get sunlight and breathing space between them. This is in stark contrast to modern real estate practices, where the goal of the for-profit developer is to buy a plot of land - oftentimes far away from existing city infrastructure, and turn it into as many sellable m^2 as possible, with no regards for liveability or infrastructure load. But no matter since these hovels are more often than not are sold at prices that eclipse the lifetime earnings of your average Hungarian. The only meaningful improvement I can think of is the ease with which one can move to the West. In summary, I hardly think the situation's unchanged - but your chief complaint - `hopelessness` - is just as valid as ever.
- _ugfj 5y ago
  I have spent weeks and months even on and off since 2009 in Hungary. Last visit, albeit just two days long, ended today, actually. I am well versed in the neofeudalism that Orban has wrought. And yet, look at my dates -- Orban is a symptom of much worse. I do not know where you grew up but the playgrounds were fucking dystopian. Do you remember the ping-pong tables? I do. I remember them all too well. They were raw concrete with a piece of metal for a net, it had holes in , but still. Try to pay ping-pong on a non-at-all smooth surface if you can. I could continue with the slides, the see-saws and all. As for the schools do not get me started. If you speak Hungarian I wrote down our education journey at https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/he9c9s/a_mi_t%C3%B6rt%C3%A9net%C3%BCnknek_magyarorsz%C3%A1gon_v%C3%A9ge_elmes%C3%A9lem/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/he9c9s/a_mi_t%C3%B... tl;dr: I financed a micro reform school for five long, long years, 2015-2020. And the hopelessness is no longer valid because you can leave. Also: you should.

by _ugfj 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

> it is a very interesting fact how much they avoided the word communism and used socialism everywhere but I digress In Bulgaria the official line is that the country and regime are socialist, which is on the path to communism which everyone should work towards. There were even slogans in factories and other public places about this. The rest of your story is tragic. I'm sorry you had to live through such times.

_ugfj 5y ago
Yes, that was the line. So everything was called socialist this and socialist that.

torginus 5y ago

Well, if you want hopelessness I suggest you live in contemporary capitalist Hungary - in many ways, the country's fate is similar to the one described in the article, it has turned into a Western vassal, where nothing worth having, no company with meaningful profits is actually owned by Hungarians. The problems about life you've described in your post are still valid today - we the country has become a nearshore colony of western corporation, nothing you do or think up will as an intellectual will actually end up in the ownership of Hungarians. No interesting R&D will ever be conducted here - all the companies that built high-tech things, and all the research institutes collapsed like a house of cards during the 90s, or were bought up and watered down by the West. The political situation is somewhat similar to the one under Socialism - boy, I do hope you like the the current party, since any meaningful democratic transfer of power seems unlikely in the near future. The prices and taxes and salaries being what they are, the necessities of a basic, liveable middle-class life - a house, a car, some reserves for financial stability - is a pipe dream for even the educated upper-middle class - barring financial trickery, help from parents or working abroad. As for the concrete prefabs - while they were not aesthetic I agree - but the urban planning concept that surrounded them meant that they didn't just go up on their own, but they made sure everything - playgrounds, schools, pharmacies, stores was accessible in walking distance. The blocks were also mostly placed far apart enough, that one could get sunlight and breathing space between them. This is in stark contrast to modern real estate practices, where the goal of the for-profit developer is to buy a plot of land - oftentimes far away from existing city infrastructure, and turn it into as many sellable m^2 as possible, with no regards for liveability or infrastructure load. But no matter since these hovels are more often than not are sold at prices that eclipse the lifetime earnings of your average Hungarian. The only meaningful improvement I can think of is the ease with which one can move to the West. In summary, I hardly think the situation's unchanged - but your chief complaint - `hopelessness` - is just as valid as ever.

_ugfj 5y ago
I have spent weeks and months even on and off since 2009 in Hungary. Last visit, albeit just two days long, ended today, actually. I am well versed in the neofeudalism that Orban has wrought. And yet, look at my dates -- Orban is a symptom of much worse. I do not know where you grew up but the playgrounds were fucking dystopian. Do you remember the ping-pong tables? I do. I remember them all too well. They were raw concrete with a piece of metal for a net, it had holes in , but still. Try to pay ping-pong on a non-at-all smooth surface if you can. I could continue with the slides, the see-saws and all. As for the schools do not get me started. If you speak Hungarian I wrote down our education journey at https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/he9c9s/a_mi_t%C3%B6rt%C3%A9net%C3%BCnknek_magyarorsz%C3%A1gon_v%C3%A9ge_elmes%C3%A9lem/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/he9c9s/a_mi_t%C3%B... tl;dr: I financed a micro reform school for five long, long years, 2015-2020. And the hopelessness is no longer valid because you can leave. Also: you should.