4 ms·

This kind of brings the question should this kind of visa scheme exist in the first place during Covid. From my very limited knowledge, these are just pledges,

This kind of brings the question should this kind of visa scheme exist in the first place during Covid. From my very limited knowledge, these are just pledges, not actual investments. Given a) NZ tiny market, b) high corporate tax rate, and c) isolation as an Oceania island (shipping), would it make sense to invest in NZ right now? My bet is that they expect Covid to end in the next 1-2 years and all these rich people will leave. These new residents are simply taking advantage of this visa scheme and not actually long term residents. That’s just my 2 cents and I may be wrong.

bobthepanda 5y ago
My understanding of these schemes is that they are generally designed for rich people who accumulated wealth in countries where they might like to have a backup option if their government gets in a particularly seize-y mood. (e.g. China or Russia)
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US? That was my impression. The middle class are usually Chinese. But regardless, rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair. Is NZ okay with this kind of wealth transfer to their country knowing this? (Well we all know the answer honestly)
  - sabellito 5y ago
    > rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair When you say it like that, creating a contrast between "east and west" and dishonest/criminal behaviour, it sounds a bit racist. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that point?
    - nowherebeen 5y ago
      True. I can only say as a Software Engineer, the tech industry in China is highly unfair from my personal experience. There are a lot of bullying tactics involve for startups that are not invested by Tencent and Alibaba. Startup founders themselves are not much better because they don't give equity to employees. Therefore, all the wealth accumulates to the founder and their investors, while the employees slave away under 996. I wouldn't say it is criminal behavior though. I specific choose the word unfair for this reason. I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs.
      - sabellito 5y ago
        You're saying that since, based on your personal experience, China doesn't play fair, NZ shouldn't be ok with this kind of wealth transfer? What about Russia, is that also your personal experience? Your point about playing fair seems a bit specific. Do you think american and european startups play fair? So in that case american and european tech-millionaires should be allowed to invest in NZ and get a visa?
        nowherebeen 5y ago
        > What about Russia, is that also your personal experience? >> As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Do you think american and european startups play fair? >> I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. > So in that case american and european tech-millionaires should be allowed to invest in NZ and get a visa? >> I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs. You clearly seemed triggered and have a bone to pick as you didn't read the entirety of my previous comment. It seems like you want to steer this thread into an argument between the East and West, which wasn't the point of my original argument and I have clarified that already. You might want to see a psychiatrist because there is definitely something more going on with you trying to project onto me. Today is Christmas, I wish you a Merry Xmas.
        sabellito 5y ago
        Absolutely no bone to pick! I'm from the camp that thinks that every millionaire didn't and doesn't play fair. Having said that, I don't have any issue with these investments visas, given the numbers that we usually see: a few hundred per year, at least in the countries I took a look at. I do think your original and follow-up comments were just outright racist, though, which's a shame. Perhaps you could take a look at that perception you have, that "russian and chinese don't play fair", and justifying it with "they work too much" and "bullying tactics". The wrapping of this last comment of yours is quite strange. Telling me to see a psychiatrist and then wishing me merry christmas haha I prefer direct rudeness and name-calling instead of whatever that is. Perhaps you could also take a look at that kind of behaviour and reconsider.
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    That may very well be true for NZ. I am more familiar with how these schemes work in the US, Canada and UK. At least in the US the scheme is particularly egregious since investing in real estate counts. https://www.mgac.com/blog/eb-5-real-estate-financing-trends-misperceptions-outlook/ https://www.mgac.com/blog/eb-5-real-estate-financing-trends-...
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  And those cases where the origin of the money is illegal, so it has to be put somewhere else. BTW, I know Honduras has an investor visa, too.

bobthepanda 5y ago

My understanding of these schemes is that they are generally designed for rich people who accumulated wealth in countries where they might like to have a backup option if their government gets in a particularly seize-y mood. (e.g. China or Russia)

nowherebeen 5y ago
Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US? That was my impression. The middle class are usually Chinese. But regardless, rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair. Is NZ okay with this kind of wealth transfer to their country knowing this? (Well we all know the answer honestly)
- sabellito 5y ago
  > rich people in China and Russia don’t accumulate wealth simply by playing fair When you say it like that, creating a contrast between "east and west" and dishonest/criminal behaviour, it sounds a bit racist. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that point?
  - nowherebeen 5y ago
    True. I can only say as a Software Engineer, the tech industry in China is highly unfair from my personal experience. There are a lot of bullying tactics involve for startups that are not invested by Tencent and Alibaba. Startup founders themselves are not much better because they don't give equity to employees. Therefore, all the wealth accumulates to the founder and their investors, while the employees slave away under 996. I wouldn't say it is criminal behavior though. I specific choose the word unfair for this reason. I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Aren’t most rich residents in NZ from the UK and US I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs.
    - sabellito 5y ago
      You're saying that since, based on your personal experience, China doesn't play fair, NZ shouldn't be ok with this kind of wealth transfer? What about Russia, is that also your personal experience? Your point about playing fair seems a bit specific. Do you think american and european startups play fair? So in that case american and european tech-millionaires should be allowed to invest in NZ and get a visa?
      - nowherebeen 5y ago
        > What about Russia, is that also your personal experience? >> As for Russia, I don't know enough to judge them. That, I apologize. > Do you think american and european startups play fair? >> I also like to point out, I don't think the West is any better either. > So in that case american and european tech-millionaires should be allowed to invest in NZ and get a visa? >> I also want to clarify this point. NZ is not usually on the list for rich Chinese people. They go to Singapore. But it is for rich Americans like Larry Page, Peter Thiel, and a few Silicon Valley execs. You clearly seemed triggered and have a bone to pick as you didn't read the entirety of my previous comment. It seems like you want to steer this thread into an argument between the East and West, which wasn't the point of my original argument and I have clarified that already. You might want to see a psychiatrist because there is definitely something more going on with you trying to project onto me. Today is Christmas, I wish you a Merry Xmas.
        sabellito 5y ago
        Absolutely no bone to pick! I'm from the camp that thinks that every millionaire didn't and doesn't play fair. Having said that, I don't have any issue with these investments visas, given the numbers that we usually see: a few hundred per year, at least in the countries I took a look at. I do think your original and follow-up comments were just outright racist, though, which's a shame. Perhaps you could take a look at that perception you have, that "russian and chinese don't play fair", and justifying it with "they work too much" and "bullying tactics". The wrapping of this last comment of yours is quite strange. Telling me to see a psychiatrist and then wishing me merry christmas haha I prefer direct rudeness and name-calling instead of whatever that is. Perhaps you could also take a look at that kind of behaviour and reconsider.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  That may very well be true for NZ. I am more familiar with how these schemes work in the US, Canada and UK. At least in the US the scheme is particularly egregious since investing in real estate counts. https://www.mgac.com/blog/eb-5-real-estate-financing-trends-misperceptions-outlook/ https://www.mgac.com/blog/eb-5-real-estate-financing-trends-...
catlikesshrimp 5y ago
And those cases where the origin of the money is illegal, so it has to be put somewhere else. BTW, I know Honduras has an investor visa, too.